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As an Australian user of RT I am deeply offended by the comments of Darrin
Vernier. He is the first 'cyberpig' I have encountered. Could Darrin pls
define 'politically correct' as his comments seem to be diametrically
opposite to this concept. Australians are the same as all humans - two arms,
two legs, a brain and in general, extremely well travelled and educated.
Unfortunately Darrin appears to be representative of the fringe lunatics and
rascists I observe when travelling in the US. Apologies to all Aussie users
will be accepted and the issue put to bed.
----- Original Message -----
From: Darrin Vernier <gphx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 5:45 AM
Subject: [RT] Re: Bryce Gilmore's Challenge of Astro Trading
> Norman,
>
> Bryce is not only focused, but also Australian. From what I've seen of
them
> on his newsgroup, they don't care to understand what 'politically correct'
> means. Very brash and outspoken. For them, it serves a purpose.
>
> Bryce is extremely focused on the hammer and nails that he uses to
> accomplish his goals. I once tried to talk saws to him and almost came
away
> with blisters. I took it personally at first, but then I realized Bryce is
> exactly who he needs to be to do what Bryce does.
>
> So is Norman, in an entirely different way.
>
> That's 'why' I look forward to both of your postings.
> Same planet, two different views.
>
> As I see it neither 'needs' defending.
> As long as you both believe that, you both win.
>
> And we get to hear both of you return to what you do best.
>
>
> Darrin
>
>
> >From: nwinski <nwinski@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Reply-To: nwinski@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >CC: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [RT] Re: Bryce Gilmore's Challenge of Astro Trading
> >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 21:34:36 -0800
> >
> >
> >
> >Darrin Vernier wrote:
> >
> > > Norman,
> > >
> > > >Bryce says, "anyone
> > > >who uses a clock is a coo-coo. Norman tells time using a clock.
> > >
> > > What makes you believe that Bryce isn't using a clock?
> > >
> > > If you believe he isn't using a clock then what he uses isn't, to you.
> > >
> > > >From what I have seen of Bryce, he sees two kinds of clocks.
> > >
> > > He learned to tell time with both, and found that FOR HIM, one was
more
> > > accurate and applicable to his trading.
> > >
> > > The reverse might be true for you.
> > >
> > > You're both holding a different part of the same elephant.
> > > Looking at different aspects of the same clock.
> > >
> > > Is it more productive to argue about whether the elephant is a tree or
> >an
> > > angel, or to see the whole elephant?
> > >
> > > Does the same hold true for clocks?
> > >
> > > When is a circle not a circle?
> > >
> > > Is 3:00 90 degrees? So many trading days? A planetary aspect?
> > >
> > > If planets can aspect, can numbers as well?
> > >
> > > There is a story about people speaking different languages.
> > > It is called the 'Tower of Babble'.
> > >
> > > When they began speaking different languages they became more intent
on
> > > destroying one another rather than noticing that what they both were
> >saying
> > > was much the same and that they could each learn from the other.
> > >
> > > Babyloningly,
> > > Darrin,
> >
> > Darrin,
> >
> > I agree. You have argued my point well. Bryce indicted me for
using
> >Astrology, when in fact he apparently is also using Astrology. I am all
for
> >learning from others. In fact, I tried to contact Bryce several times,
> >about 10
> >years ago, leaving messages on his answering machine. But, he never
> >returned my
> >calls. I have not corresponded or talked to Bryce since I briefly met
him
> >at a
> >1989 conference where I was a speaker. Now, out of left field comes this
> >hypocritical attack. He has probably never even looked at a sample of my
> >work,
> >let alone corresponded with me. He is in no position to judge me. He must
> >have a
> >list of possible competitors on a wheel, he spins the pointer, and sees
who
> >will
> >be his next "victim of the week". I guess it was my turn this week.
> >Ironically,
> >it seems while trying to shoot me, he shot himself in the foot.
> >
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Norman
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >To: Darrin Vernier <gphx@xxxxxxxxxxx>, realtraders
> > > ><realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >Subject: Re: [RT] Bryce Gilmore's Challenge of Astro Trading
> > > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 23:15:54 -0800
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Darrin Vernier wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Norman has an analog clock with hands that say 3:00.
> > > > > Bryce has a digital clock that says 3:00.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can you choose which one is right, or is there a different way of
> > > >looking at
> > > > > this?
> > > > >
> > > > > With Utmost Respect,
> > > > > Darrin
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S. Unleash the hounds...
> > > >
> > > >Darrin,
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, I don't understand how your metaphor or analagy relates to
> >the
> > > >current
> > > >attack by Bryce on me? A more apropriate analogy would be: Bryce
> >says,
> > > >"anyone
> > > >who uses a clock is a coo-coo. Norman tells time using a clock.
> >Therefore,
> > > >Norman is a coo coo. By the way, my clock says it is time to for
> >everyone
> > > >to
> > > >check out my website where I have the latest line of clocks."
> > > >
> > > >CooCooingly,
> > > >
> > > >Norman
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: nwinski <nwinski@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > >Reply-To: nwinski@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> bryce-@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >Subject: [RT] Bryce Gilmore's Challenge of Astro Trading
> > > > > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 00:46:17 -0800
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ref:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.eGroups.com/group/get_traders/146.html?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Bryce Gilmore & Associates bryce-@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > To: RealTraders realtrader-@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 6:30 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Fw: [RT] Re: Gann the method
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > BG: I am not a member of realtraders but it will be
interesting
> >to
> > > >see
> > > > > >if they
> > > > > > > publish this.
> > > > > > > Bryce.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > NW: Unfortunately for you Bryce, you got your wish. I shall now
> >prove
> > > > > > that you don't know what you are talking about which will
surely
> > > > > > reduce or erase your credibility as a supposed Gann expert.
> >Please
> > > > > > see the rest of my reply after Bryce's post.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bryce Gilmore wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To Real Traders,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I hope this is not taken the wrong way by your members - and
I
> > > > > > trust you
> > > > > > > will publish it to them for the sake of education.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am not against people who use astrology in the markets -
but
> >I
> > > > > > don't
> > > > > > know
> > > > > > > any who do who make any serious money from that angle.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I got this copy of Norman's email relayed to me so I am not
> >sure
> > > > > > which bus
> > > > > > > he is stepping off. But I do know that Gann was not an
> >astrology
> > > > > > freak
> > > > > > only
> > > > > > > an observer of planetary phenomena in relation to natural
> >cycles.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Norman Winski or Norman if you allow me to be personal has a
> >way of
> > > > > > exciting
> > > > > > > people into the mysterious, if Norman knows what Gann was
about
> >he
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > a little less careless with his statements.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gann was about using the dynamic action of the market to find
> > > > > > resistance
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > support, his planetary studies are related to seasonal time
> >periods
> > > > > > between
> > > > > > > expected change in trend. When one goes into astrology the
> >options
> > > > > > become
> > > > > > > limitless.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, my message is this, Anyone who believes Gann is based on
> > > > > > astrology
> > > > > > > should stand back and take another look. Teachers such as
> >Norman W
> > > > > > who
> > > > > > claim
> > > > > > > Gann was all about astrology are using you and you will never
> >be
> > > > > > able to
> > > > > > > check whether their claims have any validity, cause the
> >astrology
> > > > > > aspect
> > > > > > > only repeats about every 25,000 years.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hope this is of use to your group.
> > > > > > > regards,
> > > > > > > Bryce Gilmore.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > NW: I will now refer you and the list to a book that is
> >commonly
> > > > > > available. Please retrieve a copy of Perry Kaufman's Trading
> >Systems
> > > > > > & Methods, Copyright 1978, published by John Wiley & Sons, ISBN
> > > > > > 0-471-03569-6. Please turn to page 202 where Kaufman shows a
copy
> >of
> > > > > > Gann's famous 1948 Soybean chart. Bryce, you see just to the
> >right of
> > > > > > the left hand price axis, between 260 and 264? What is that
> >curvey
> > > > > > funny looking "4" ? Could it be the glyph for Jupiter? Oh, you
> >don't
> > > > > > think so? Ok, there is another funny 4 just a little bit higher
> >and
> > > > > > about two inches to the right. This one has that funny 4
followed
> >by
> > > > > > a "30" and an arrow pointing up and to the right. Bruce, if you
> >knew
> > > > > > any Astrology, you would know that means that the funny looking
4
> >is
> > > > > > the glyph for Jupiter, the 30 means 30 degrees, an the arrow is
> >the
> > > > > > glyph for the zodiacal sign Sagittarius. Still don't believe
it?
> >Just
> > > > > > check an ephemeris (table of planetary
> > > > > > tables - translated for pseudo Gann experts like Bryce) and you
> >will
> > > > > > see that Jupiter was actually at that position at the time the
> >chart
> > > > > > was drawn. To make a long analysis short, this type of stuff
is
> >all
> > > > > > over that chart. Jupiter, Mars, signs, etc. So, if Gann didn't
> >use
> > > > > > Astrology, why did he bother to have hand drawn all those
> >intricate
> > > > > > Astrological symbols on his Soybean chart? Oh, by the way, he
> >shows
> > > > > > Mars
> > > > > > forming a conjunction with Jupiter right at the top of the
> >Soybean
> > > > > > market. Gann's former partner, JC, with whom I spoke with, said
> >Gann
> > > > > > went short there based on Astrology. JC also said that Gann was
> > > > > > "primarily Astrological". I later had JC confirmed as the real
> >deal
> > > > > > by Billy Jones and Phyllis Kahn, both who were respected Gann
> >experts
> > > > > > long before anyone had ever heard of a "Bryce". You can also
read
> >my
> > > > > > essay, "What You Need To Know About W.D. Gann" on this subject
> >which
> > > > > > was published with a copy of Gann's Soybean chart with
> >Astrological
> > > > > > indications all over it. As you can see from Kaufman's book, I
> >didn't
> > > > > > plant those Astrological symbols on the chart. My essay was
> >published
> > > > > > in Traders's World Magazine circa 1988 and is now offered as
part
> >of
> > > > > > their archive collection. You can check their website,
> > > > > > <http://www.tradersworld.com> find the archive index, and you
> >will
> > > > > > see my name in issue #3 for "W.D. Gann and Astrology by Norman
> > > > > > Winski"..
> > > > > > So Bryce, I don't expect you to be transformed overnight.
> >But,
> > > > > > perhaps if you do your homework, sometime in the near future,
you
> > > > > > will realize the errors of your ways and decide to study
> >Astrology. I
> > > > > >
> > > > > > may even consider accepting you as my student. Then, you may be
> >able
> > > > > > to honestly call yourself a Gann expert. Let me know how it
goes.
> > > > > > Oh, if you thought the Soybean chart was just a one time
> >fluke,
> > > > > > I have alot more of Gann's stuff with Astrological references.
I
> > > > > > think you must have missed of few of my posting here. Try not
to
> >miss
> > > > > > class in the future. <G>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cosmically,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Norman Winski
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P.S. Bryce, membership in Realtraders is free, if you are a
real
> > > > > > trader. <G> Oh my gosh! I just checked out Bryce's wavetrader
> > > > > > website, http://www.wavetrader.com ( nice plug, huh Bryce?) and
> >found
> > > > > > the following.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Planetary Research Module: Programmed into the Software.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bryce's new book gives you the methodology and the
software
> > > > > > gives you the
> > > > > > ways and means to research the effect of planetary
> >phenomenon
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > markets!"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So Bryce, why are you using Astrology in your trading
products
> >and
> > > > > > then criticizing me for using it? Seems a bit hypocritical to
me.
> > > > > > Case closed! Bryce, nice joke, guess you were just pullin my
> >chain
> > > > > > huh?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Bryce Gilmore & Associates bryce-@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > To: RealTraders realtrader-@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 6:30 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Fw: [RT] Re: Gann the method
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > To Real Traders,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I hope this is not taken the wrong way by your members - and
I
> > > > > > trust you
> > > > > > > will publish it to them for the sake of education.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am not against people who use astrology in the markets -
but
> >I
> > > > > > don't
> > > > > > know
> > > > > > > any who do who make any serious money from that angle.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I got this copy of Norman's email relayed to me so I am not
> >sure
> > > > > > which bus
> > > > > > > he is stepping off. But I do know that Gann was not an
> >astrology
> > > > > > freak
> > > > > > only
> > > > > > > an observer of planetary phenomena in relation to natural
> >cycles.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Norman Winski or Norman if you allow me to be personal has a
> >way of
> > > > > > exciting
> > > > > > > people into the mysterious, if Norman knows what Gann was
about
> >he
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > a little less careless with his statements.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gann was about using the dynamic action of the market to find
> > > > > > resistance
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > support, his planetary studies are related to seasonal time
> >periods
> > > > > > between
> > > > > > > expected change in trend. When one goes into astrology the
> >options
> > > > > > become
> > > > > > > limitless.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, my message is this, Anyone who believes Gann is based on
> > > > > > astrology
> > > > > > > should stand back and take another look. Teachers such as
> >Norman W
> > > > > > who
> > > > > > claim
> > > > > > > Gann was all about astrology are using you and you will never
> >be
> > > > > > able to
> > > > > > > check whether their claims have any validity, cause the
> >astrology
> > > > > > aspect
> > > > > > > only repeats about every 25,000 years.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hope this is of use to your group.
> > > > > > > regards,
> > > > > > > Bryce Gilmore.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "nwinski" nwinsk-@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > To: vaugh00-@xxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > Cc: realtrader-@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 6:59 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [RT] Re: Gann the method
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > vaugh00-@xxxxxxx wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Of the several texts that address Gann's methods ,
which
> >does
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > best
> > > > > > > > job
> > > > > > > > > > teaching the subject . What are the groups thoughts ?
> > > > > > thanks tom
> > > > > > > > vaughan
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Tom,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Here is my Gann test. If the teacher doesn't know
> > > > > > Astrology, they
> > > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > know Gann. That should
> > > > > > > > > eliminate a good portion of the Gann teachers and
authors.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Here is my Gann tip. Don't bother trying to learn
Gann
> > > > > > until you
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > very good foundation in the basic principles of
Astrology.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You are welcome to contact me by private e-mail if
you
> >have
> > > > > > > questions,
> > > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > > more information, or want to share some very funny jokes.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Co(s)mically,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Norman
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > P.S. You will need a good sense of humor if you want to
> >study
> > > > > > Gann's
> > > > > > > > writings.
> > > > > > > > > He loves to play with
> > > > > > > > > your brain. <G>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Image]
> > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > [Image]
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