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<P>David Hunt wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Hi Darrin and Norman,
<P>Darrin your summation of Bryce Gilmore is correct. His attacks
are not
<BR>personal. They are more what he sees as the truth as to what
helps more
<BR>people make money. Norman - Bryce's attack was not on you per se. Its
pretty
<BR>easy to take it that way when</BLOCKQUOTE>
NW: I am beyond the personal attack. My point is that Bryce Gilmore is
a hypocrite.
<BR>He can take that it or leave it. If one criticizes someone for doing
something that they themselves are
<BR>doing, they are a hypocrite. Bryce criticized me for using Astrology
in relation to the markets and Gann analysis. I went to his website and
to my shock "Voila!" he is pushing Astrological products. I wouldn't trust
anyone with this type of mentality. This has nothing to do with his truth,
my truth, or what makes money. It has to do with intellectual honesty and
the ability to execute clear and consistent logic.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<P>Norman, if someone asks me what a good Astro Course they could do I
say
<BR>"WINSKI's". One of Bryce's good mates is Larry Pasavento. They have
spent a
<BR>lot of time together over the years.</BLOCKQUOTE>
NW: Really? I know Larry very well. In fact, if you ever take my Astro
101 Home Study Course, you will see Larry on my video tapes sitting right
next to me participating with the class. He sat in as a guest student,
briefly, when I video taped my original live class. Larry previously
traded using Astrology. Larry is a very nice guy. Unfortunately, he didn't
bother to learn the basic principles of Astrology and therefore was misguided
in several of his key Astrological tenets. After several years of trying
to use Astrology, he gave up and went to Artificial Intelligence. I am
not sure what his latest methods are. I just hope for his sake he hasn't
fallen in with this Bryce character.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<BR>I also know you are a good Elliott head I sometimes wonder if that
helps you
<BR>more as you know market structure better than most.</BLOCKQUOTE>
NW: Thanks. But, I think I got stuck in the First Grade on Elliott. I know
just enough to be dangerous.<G>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Bryce's book has 40 or
<BR>so pages devoted to Astro work and then he says take or leave it and
that he
<BR>finds the Geometry is better.</BLOCKQUOTE>
NW: I don't tell anyone how to approach the markets. All I insist is that
if you are going to call yourself
<BR>a "Gann Expert" that you must know Astrology at least as well as Gann
did. . You can't put a Ketchup label on a bottle without having some tomato
inside. My main point is truth in labeling. Just for the record, I have
never called myself a Gann expert. I don't care to get caught up in some
of the cult like mentality that some people have about Gann. I am interested
only in what Gann did that works and that offers a very positive return
for the effort. I don't have to live with every failed experiment Gann
ever conducted. The methods that he used successfully, that fit me, I use
those and try to improve upon them. Because I am not a pure Gann follower,
I couldn't call myself a Gann expert and be honest. But, I am much closer
to being a Gann expert than many of the wannabees who are using Gann's
name to market their books and software without a knowledge of the basic
principles of Astrology.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<P>However the reality is for most people the Astro stuff is too complex
and
<BR>fries their brains.</BLOCKQUOTE>
NW: Astrology is not difficult if it is approached in a simple and methodical
manner. It requires that you memorize about 30 symbols and their meanings.
Then, you learn how to put these together just like
<BR>adding 2 + 2 = 4. It is a little like learning a foreign language,
only much simpler. The similarity is that
<BR>like learning a language or a musical instrument, you must practice
every day. It is not how long you practice but how often you practice.
If anyone with a 100 or better IQ is willing to study one hour per day,
for 5 days per week, I can teach them Astrology in six months. I
have known many Gann students who wrestled to understand Gann writings
for many years. If they had just taken six months to learn Astrology, they
would have increased their understanding of Gann's writings and greatly
accelerated their learning curve.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> We had one "well known - persona identity"
in Australia
<BR>charging more than A$30,000 for a weekend (for one guy it was 2 lots
of 3
<BR>hours - boy was his wife surprised when he came back a few hours after
<BR>leaving each day!!).</BLOCKQUOTE>
NW: If it is who I think, this guy is a fraud. He pretends to be a Gann
expert but doesn't know Astrology. The easiest test for authenticity of
any Gann expert is whether they know Astrology. If they don't know Astrology,
they don't know Gann.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Most of the people who paid for this were left -
in
<BR>their own words - "angry and confused". We see all this money
poured into
<BR>learning Astro by people we know and we don't see any of them do any
better
<BR>in the markets usually its better</BLOCKQUOTE>
NW: I can't speak for anyone else. I am only a "Winski expert". Very few
practice what they preach, whether it is Astro or some other methods. I
practice what I preach. I trade based on what I teach. And I have
my trading recommendations and results independently monitored.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<P>I assume you have read THE CROSS of THE MAGI:</BLOCKQUOTE>
NW: No, sorry I am not familiar with that book.. I have a 3,000 volume
library, but I hadn't run "across" that one .<G>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<P>"THE MAGI DISCOVERED THAT THE ARITHMETICAL NUMBERS EXPRESSED BY THE
<BR>CHRONOLOGICAL RELATIONS OF SUN AND MOON TO EARTH WERE IDENTICAL WITH
THOSE
<BR>THAT SOLVED THE GEOMETRICAL PROBLEM OF THE SQUARING OF THE CIRCLE"
<P>That basically tells you that if you have the Geometry right the Astrology
<BR>falls into place.</BLOCKQUOTE>
NW: That is very interesting. However, how does that help you understand
Gann's writings when you read in Gann's course that US Steel was incorporated
on a certain date and that it would be good to know that date? Or how does
that help you with all the dates to which Gann alludes in "Tunnel Thru
The Air"?
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>That is Bryce's point.</BLOCKQUOTE>
NW: If you ask me, Bryce missed the point when it comes to Gann. But, that
was not my point. I don't like hypocrites. When hypocrites appear on my
path, I will do whatever it takes to expose them. In closing, I would like
to thank Bryce Gilmore for motivating me to join the GET list. I think
this could be very interesting. Let's Rumble! <G>
<P>Consistently,
<P>Norman
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>P.S. I apologize to the RT list for this never ending
saga. I ask for this discussion to be put to a rest. But, it seems
to have been transformed into one of those "B" movie Zombies that
just won't lie down and die. I refuse to allow anyone to imply anything
about me that is not true without my defending myself. I shall defend my
honor to the end. Sancho, get my horse! <G></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<P>David Hunt
<BR>http://www.adest.com.au/
<BR>US Callers phone: 1 312 577 0491
<BR>Australians phone: 02 9527 4690
<BR>International: 612 9527 4690
<P>Darrin Vernier wrote:
<P>> Norman,
<BR>>
<BR>> >Bryce says, "anyone
<BR>> >who uses a clock is a coo-coo. Norman tells time using a clock.
<BR>>
<BR>> What makes you believe that Bryce isn't using a clock?
<BR>>
<BR>> If you believe he isn't using a clock then what he uses isn't, to
you.
<BR>>
<BR>> >From what I have seen of Bryce, he sees two kinds of clocks.
<BR>>
<BR>> He learned to tell time with both, and found that FOR HIM, one was
more
<BR>> accurate and applicable to his trading.
<BR>>
<BR>> The reverse might be true for you.
<BR>>
<BR>> You're both holding a different part of the same elephant.
<BR>> Looking at different aspects of the same clock.
<BR>>
<BR>> Is it more productive to argue about whether the elephant is a tree
or an
<BR>> angel, or to see the whole elephant?
<BR>>
<BR>> Does the same hold true for clocks?
<BR>>
<BR>> When is a circle not a circle?
<BR>>
<BR>> Is 3:00 90 degrees? So many trading days? A planetary aspect?
<BR>>
<BR>> If planets can aspect, can numbers as well?
<BR>>
<BR>> There is a story about people speaking different languages.
<BR>> It is called the 'Tower of Babble'.
<BR>>
<BR>> When they began speaking different languages they became more intent
on
<BR>> destroying one another rather than noticing that what they both were
<BR>saying
<BR>> was much the same and that they could each learn from the other.
<BR>>
<BR>>
Babyloningly,
<BR>>
Darrin,
<P> Darrin,
<P> I agree. You have argued my point well.
Bryce indicted me for using
<BR>Astrology, when in fact he apparently is also using Astrology. I am
all for
<BR>learning from others. In fact, I tried to contact Bryce several times,
about
<BR>10
<BR>years ago, leaving messages on his answering machine. But, he never
returned
<BR>my
<BR>calls. I have not corresponded or talked to Bryce since I briefly
met him
<BR>at a
<BR>1989 conference where I was a speaker. Now, out of left field
comes this
<BR>hypocritical attack. He has probably never even looked at a sample
of my
<BR>work,
<BR>let alone corresponded with me. He is in no position to judge me. He
must
<BR>have a
<BR>list of possible competitors on a wheel, he spins the pointer, and
sees who
<BR>will
<BR>be his next "victim of the week". I guess it was my turn this week.
<BR>Ironically,
<BR>it seems while trying to shoot me, he shot himself in the foot.
<P>Cheers,
<P>Norman
<P>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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</x-html>From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 09:43:18 2000
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Message-ID: <006d01bf60bd$1d666b00$968c40d8@xxxxxxx>
From: "Thomas Beck" <thombek@xxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RT] XDSL
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 23:33:13 -0800
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:thombek@xxxxxxx"; title=thombek@xxxxxxx>Thomas Beck</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 16, 2000 11:23 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> XDSL</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>RealTraders</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A Techno Dude gave me a tip on a sure thing stock.
XDSL. ....sure you've all had those.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The company has the technology to transmit 400
channels of digital TV, plus internet, plus telephone over existing copper cable
telephone lines. For those in larger metro areas this may not be a breakthrough
but for us in the outer levels of existense (Idaho) this is great. I've
struggled lately with ISP's, Cable AT&T, DSL etc... (not willing to go
satellite yet)... only to get not available in your area responses.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The potential seems large. And the stock is rumored
to go to $150 in a year from it's current $8.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm always suspicious of techno stocks, but I've
also witness'ed their unresonable explosion into the stratosphere, as well as
their sometimes demise into oblivion. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Does anyone know anything on this
one???</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>No affiliation, Two years on the Real Traders
list</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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</x-html>From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 09:41:09 2000
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Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 23:49:25 -0800
From: nwinski <nwinski@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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Subject: [RT] Re: Bryce's Reply to Norman's Reply to etc
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<P>David Hunt wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><LINK rel=File-List href="cid:filelist.xml@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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<DIV class=Section1>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><SPAN style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Bryce
has put in a request to join RT but as its being processed now here is
something he asked me to send to the list.</FONT></FONT></FONT><o:p></o:p></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><SPAN style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><!--[if supportFields]><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><span style='mso-element:field-begin'></span><span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail
Signature" <span style='mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font><![endif]--><SPAN style='color:black'><FONT COLOR="#000000">David
Hunt</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>http://www.adest.com.au/</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>US
Callers phone: 1 312 577 0491</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Australians
phone: 02 9527 4690</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>International:
612 9527 4690</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><!--[if supportFields]><font color=black><span
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<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>NW:
Unfortunately for you Bryce, you got your wish. I shall now prove that
you don't know what you are talking about which will surely reduce or erase
your credibility as a supposed Gann expert. Please see the rest of my reply
after Bryce's post. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>To
RealTraders:</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Norman
thankyou for your eloquence in explaining Gann's use of astrology in his
charts but you forgot to mention what he was plotting other than the position
of Mars and Jupiter. I studied that chart you refer to 15 years ago so
I am well versed with it.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<P class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>NW:
Bryce, nowhere did I ever say that Gann was only using Mars and Jupiter.
I repect the value of people's time. The readers of this saga deserve to
arrive at the point of the discussion as quickly as possilbe. For the sake
of brevity, I only used that one example. If the readers of these lists
would like more info, I referred them to where they can study the chart,
or they can contact me by private e-mail.</FONT></FONT></FONT>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Bryce,
I am not a puppet for whom you can put words into my mouth. There are no
strings on me.</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>But,
I think your nose is getting bigger. You'll never get to be a real boy
this way. <G></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<P class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>I
love the flurry of phone numbers you posted. Here is my sales pitch. .</FONT></FONT></FONT>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<P class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Operators
are standing by. Void where prohibited by law. Batteries not included.
Some assembly may be required. <G></FONT></FONT></FONT>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<P class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Gepetto-ingly,</FONT></FONT></FONT>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<P class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Norman
Winski</FONT></FONT></FONT>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class="MsoNormal"><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Those
Jupiter and Mars positions on the Bean Chart are PLANETS POSITION VERSUS
PRICE and I admit the crossovers represent conjunctions and oppositions.
Seems like your interpretation of Gann is different to mine as I believe
Gann was observing rather than trading off those planetary positions.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>I
have back tested planets positions against price and came to the conclusion
that if you used that simple approach demonstrated in the Gann chart you
refer to you may get a COT about 10% of the time. And that reduces Gann's
astrology approach to hit and miss. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Therefore
if you want to get the most out of Gann you should take note of his statement,
"I have discovered the true vibration of the market, it is a natural law."</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>To
explain, He was referring to the actual price in time movements relating
to each individual market. Each market creates its own vibrations. And
to track them you use geometry not planets.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Norman
thankyou for the gracious offer to take me on as a student, I won't need
to take that offer up but maybe you might consider becoming a student of
mine and learn what geometry is all about.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>respectfully,</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Bryce</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN style='font-family:Verdana;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]></SPAN><SPAN style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
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Subject: [RT] RE: Real Estate Article
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Status:
There is no question that the internet will have sales taxes down the road.
In the USA, sales taxes are used to fund many services. Should the brick &
mortar crown pay taxes and net vendors not? I don't think so.
But there are two problems:
1. How do enforce tax collections against non-U.S. companies? What would
encourage them to incur the overhead of collecting, reporting and
forwarding taxes to the respective municipalities?
2. And the incredible variety of tax laws implemented by every state,
county, municipality, etc. is certainly a further deterrent. But there are
supposedly 7000+ different sales tax rates throughout the US. One company
(I forget the name) has said that they can handle this number of variables
and would like to act as the clearing house for either providing software to
do the job or else collect the taxes?
It would seem that we first need to have one standardized tax rate, set on a
national level before we can consider implementing net taxation. This still
doesn't address the issue of off-shore taxation but I'm sure there are ways
to address this (maybe make the credit card companies be the tax collectors?
They would add the tax to all purchases, collect it and remit it to a
central distribution agency). And if we go with net-money instead of credit
cards, then they will have to collect the taxes.
Actually, the more I think about this, the more complicated the whole issue
seems. Maybe the only real solution is no sales taxes and a flat tax on all
income without deductions at the national and state level <shrug>?
JW
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Mackro [mailto:jmackro@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 8:21 AM
To: JW@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [RT] Real Estate Article
JW:
Good article - thanks for posting it. But, I believe it is naive in one
respect:
>The International Council of Shopping
>Centers and the National Association of Real Estate Investment Trusts
joined
>the so-called e-Fairness Coalition to oppose favorable tax treatment for
>online transactions. They hope to increase customer costs and slow the
>growth of e-commerce. The ploy is completely misdirected. In many cases,
>buying online is more convenient – it offers better comparison shopping,
>provides greater selection, is less expensive and saves time in comparison
>to brick-and-mortar stores. Manipulating the sales tax issue will not force
>shoppers back to stores.
Oh, everyone knows that, including The International Council of Shopping
Centers and the National Association of Real Estate Investment Trusts.
But, real estate developers provide a HUGE source of campaign
contributions, and sales taxes (obviously) provide a HUGE source of
government funds which may be used for patronage, buying votes through
entitlement programs, ... So, here's an opportunity for these two groups -
developers & politicians - to join forces for the purpose of increasing
the proportion of the economy that goes into the public sector. Wow,
there is no way this isn't going to happen. And, as usual, they have a
"cover" for what they are doing - call it "sales tax fairness", or "keeping
business on Main Street instead of Wall Street", or the ubiquitous
"Save the Children".
Sorry to come across like some right wing nut case, but I am
pessimistic that internet sales taxes aren't going to become a
reality.
Jay Mackro
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