|
PureBytes Links
Trading Reference Links
|
JJ,
Sans judgement on right or wrong, history teaches that the beginning of
the end for great nations is when they over reach their borders. I think
there is a strong consensus that would like to see Saddam
retire. However, shouldn't we lead by example via the Golden Rule? If
other countries don' like our national leaders, should they invade the US?
If no, how can we justify doing the same? What
consititutes justification for invading another country? Should the
invading country be concerned about a possible self correcting "karma" for
nations? We are still paying for Viet Nam in infinite social costs. How
many US lives were ruined, lasting to the present, as a result of this
experience? This is the debate raging in my head. Hopefully, it will
stimulate some interesting discussion.
Regards,
Norman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Johnson" <jejohn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "EarlA" <earl.a@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:23 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [RT] Market
> Hello EarlA,
>
> Your assessment is largely on point but possibly overly focused on the
> economics. All action of governments and esp high risk ones are based
> on multiple motivations. that's another way of saying multiple
> interests of stakeholders converge. economics is a biggie--short term
> and long term.
>
> I am a hawk. I have not problem with being imperialist when it suits
> the situation for the USA. Whatever it gets called, occupation of
> Iraq is in the long term interests of the US. The economics of it are
> part of the issue but its much to simplistic to say that is all. The
> political risks are huge for Bush. That says to me other things are
> afoot. I believe we are much more at war with radical Islam than most
> people have come to realize. We will be best served by being able to
> fight part of this war (economically, militarily, geo-politically,
> intelligence-wise) by having a base in the Middle East. This is a
> much bigger deal historically than meets the eye. This will change
> the balance of power in the world for decades.
>
> BTW-- as you suggest, one reason why the weenies in Europe are against
> the taking of Iraq is that we will find they are in bed with Saddam.
> Double dealing skunks.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Jim Johnson mailto:jejohn@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> --
> Thursday, January 23, 2003, 9:02:43 AM, you wrote:
>
> E> First rule is that no (rationally governed) country goes to war unless
> E> economic interests are at stake. The Revolutionary war was spurred on
by
> E> wealthy "patriots" wishing to free their enterprise from the yoke of
British
> E> ownership and taxation. The British wanted to preserve the flow of
cheap raw
> E> materials from the Colonies. The French wanted to put a dent in the
British
> E> and obtain more favorable trade terms for themselves. The wealthy
"patriots"
> E> in the Colonies were more than happy to rouse the masses to their cause
and
> E> finance the masses to shed their blood. I say this not to make light of
the
> E> many true patriots involved in the Revolution, but to show (in a
simplistic
> E> way) the role of economic interests.
>
> E> There were two world wars. In both cases, US business was making a
bundle
> E> producing and selling war materials to Europe. The Germans finally
began
> E> sinking as many US cargo ships as they could find. The match which
brought
> E> US entry into WW I was the sinking of passenger ships (the Lusitania in
> E> particular) which were, according to Germany, carrying armaments
destined
> E> for Europe. During WW II, US ships carrying armaments and goods to
Europe
> E> were once again the target of attacks by German U boats which were
> E> instructed to avoid passenger ships. However it was the Japanese who
> E> provided the match by bombing Pearl Harbor in response to US blockades
and
> E> embargoes of natural resources in Asia.
>
> E> One should never forget that politics and business interests are always
> E> strong bedfellows! In current events, one need look no further than the
> E> controversy regarding Iraq and North Korea. North Korea has been
selling
> E> armaments and (allegedly) chemical weapons for years, is known to
possess
> E> several "nuculer" [sic] weapons, and poses a truly serious threat to
> E> Southeast Asia. North Korea has no economic value because it has no
natural
> E> resources and has no money to buy anything from anyone. Note that the
> E> Europeans are equally as critical of North Korea as is the US. The
North
> E> Korean problem is relegated to talk. Iraq which undoubtedly has some
WMD
> E> (which it does not export), is sitting on the world's second largest
> E> reserves of oil. Iraq buys lots of stuff from Europe (also US while
fighting
> E> the Iranians and before invading Kuwait). Iraq is known to have used
> E> chemical weapons on Kurds and Iranians, but has not attacked the US or
> E> threatened the US. Iraq is now under threat of imminent attack from the
US
> E> and the first order of battle is securing the Iraqi oil fields.
European
> E> business has been busy trading with Iraq since the Gulf War: selling
lots of
> E> proscribed materials and obtaining important oil interests. Naturally,
they
> E> are pushing European governments to protect their economic interests.
>
> E> Earl
>
> E> ----- Original Message -----
> E> From: "TheGonch" <thegonch@xxxxxxxxxx>
> E> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> E> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 6:05 AM
> E> Subject: Re: [RT] Market
>
>
> >> Perhaps I have my history wrong, but didn't the US refuse to get
involved
> E> until it was attacked by the Japanese?
> >>
> >> You talk as if fighting the Nazis was an act of generosity, rather than
in
> E> the best interests of the US.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> DanG
> >>
> >> EarlA wrote:
> >> Absolutely! Did not mean to slight anyone ... however the French seem
to
> >> reserve their phobia for the US.
> >>
> >> Earl
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Andrew Nopper" <tradera@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:23 PM
> >> Subject: RE: [RT] Market
> >>
> >>
> >> Hmmm ... then I guess the French also owe allegiance to the Indians,
> >> Nepalese, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans, Canadians and
> >> British
> >> (did I miss anyone?) who also gave their lives in defence of liberty,
> E> not
> >> to
> >> mention the Russians, who gave the most lives, although not directly
on
> >> French soil. Seems like they owe a lot of gratitude to a lot of people
for
> >> a
> >> lot of time.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: EarlA [mailto:earl.a@xxxxxxxxxx]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:51 PM
> >> To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: Re: [RT] Market
> >>
> >>
> >> Let's see ... France was happy to tweak the British to further their
own
> >> economic interests during the Revolutionary War. Very few French
> >> actually
> >> gave their lives on American soil in defense of American liberty.
On
> E> the
> >> other hand, hundreds of thousands of Americans have given their lives
on
> >> French soil in defense of French liberty during 2 World Wars. So the
> >> scales
> >> are in balance and the French can now thumb their noses at America?
> >> Hardly!
> >>
> >> I happen to think that Bush and crew are on the wrong track but I
hardly
> >> think we need lessons from France!
> >>
> >> Earl
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Andrew Nopper" <tradera@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 6:31 PM
> >> Subject: RE: [RT] Market
> >>
> >>
> >> > ... I guess they figure that they're even after helping you to
avoid
> >> paying
> >> > foreign taxes on your tea ...
> >> >
> >> > :)
> >> >
> >> > Andrew
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: BobsKC [mailto:bobskc@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 7:12 PM
> >> > To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > Subject: Re: [RT] Market
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > [snip]
> >> >
> >> > My God ... I just heard that France is going to work with Germany
> >> against
> >> > U.S. interests. Without America, they'd all be speaking German.
I
> >> do
> >> not
> >> > understand the French people .. I never have. Oh well ..
> >> >
> >> > Good trading ...
> >> >
> >> > Bob
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >> ADVERTISEMENT
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> realtraders-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> realtraders-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >> ADVERTISEMENT
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> realtraders-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >>
>
>
> E> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> E> realtraders-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> E> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> realtraders-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
realtraders-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|