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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Could be some task! But what is the
indicator going to tell you that you cannot see in front of you as it
happens? Are we thinking your eyes would not see what the machine
sees? Would an indicator make you pull the trigger, because you would believe
the machine rather than your own eyes? Or is it to allow
you to be away from the machine and just wait for some alert to go off?
Plus a mass of other questions, before you even start...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To be of real value the indicator has to be
better, faster and more accurate than you watching the price action and making
the trade assessment for yourself. It has to be worth the
considerable, I imagine, effort in working through all the permutations, etc, to
write it. The beauty of learning to read the tape is that you do not need
a sophisticated approach; it need not be expensive to sit down and absorb
what has to be done, utilizing pretty simple and cheap(ish!) tools.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As I have said before, I am very game (still!) to
try any indicator. I would love an easier way (or perhaps lazier way) of
trading. Set up the machine, put in the indicators, wait for the signals
and cash in the money. Yippee !! There are loads of systems
out there that more or less say that is what you can do on all sorts of
instruments - particularly the S&P! It is all rubbish as we
know.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now using Elliot Wave for position trading and the
various systems and indicators around the concept is a whole different ball
game. I have never embarked on it myself, but a lot of people clearly make
money using these tools - and many on this list. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Personally, I have never found anything that let's
me predict tomorrow - not in a way which will let me have confidence enough to
put my money on it. The daily chart, is a help, a confirmation tool,
an aid to what might happen: take the recent Telegraph Pole on the
bonds. Looked a dead ringer for lower prices (and I said so on my
website) but, one asks four days later, when? How you would trade that
knowledge (if it turns out to be right in the end) as a position player, I know
not. As a day trader, there has been good loot to take out during
each day, so it doesn't really matter. I did punt some puts, but after a
couple of days, I bought them back with a tiny profit - compared with the
previous occasion, when they were well in the money. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For me, I reckon you have to be at your machine
(when you want to be for as long as you want to be, but making due allowances
for the time devoted) and follow the price action along, using an holistic
approach incorporating straightforward drawing tools and you have every
opportunity to end up putting bread on the table.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>But... produce an indicator that does it all
for you... I'd love to try it!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bill Eykyn<BR><A
href="http://www.t-bondtrader.com";>www.t-bondtrader.com</A><BR>"Learn to read
the tape"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:sptrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=sptrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>sptrader</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>T-Bondtrader</A> ; <A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 08, 2000 3:40
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Indicators</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Maybe we should all concentrate on creating indicators
that identify the patterns and support-resist levels-and give alerts when they
are present.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Steve</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>T-Bondtrader</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 07, 2000 2:28
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Indicators</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This is a re-send, as it has not appeared (on
my screen!)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>>With all due respect, you<BR>> seem to
have quite a narrow definition of "indicator<BR><BR>I don't mean to take
this sentence out of context, but I believe that it is<BR>the nub the
issue.<BR><BR>Indicators are, so far as I am concerned, all those in the
analysis<BR>techniques box in my Supercharts. I have collected
over 100 in my time and<BR>they are all lagging and, for day trading
purposes useless.<BR><BR>Take today's action on the bonds: look
at the chart and you will see<BR>exactly what I mean. Price
patterns, support and resistance and other<BR>tools will give you a much
better and faster and more profitable result than<BR>using an
indicator. That ADX was right - miles after the event.
Fine,<BR>perhaps, for position trading, or showing how clever it is after
the action<BR>is all over - but, frankly, useless to a day trader who is
reading the<BR>market as it goes along.<BR><BR>The wedge or whatever you
want to call it was the signal. At the time.<BR>Clear and
simple. No lagging. No the ball. What else do you
want? The<BR>J-Hook into new territory was the
signal. Measuring the retracement means<BR>using a tool, not an
indicator. Support and resistance are facts in
the<BR>market. They are not indicators. They happened and
can be relied on.<BR>Price action is the market showing what it is doing, as
it is doing it. If<BR>it forms a wedge it is telling what it is
doing. What indicator can work as<BR>fast or as accurately as
that? What? Tell me. I will use
it. So would<BR>about 50 or so others on this list who trade in my
like fashion.<BR><BR>Anyone can use whatever they like. That is there
privilege. All I know is<BR>that what I have found to work and can
show works, works.<BR><BR>'Nuff said. Supper time over
here...<BR><BR><BR><BR>Bill Eykyn<BR><A
href="http://www.t-bondtrader.com";>www.t-bondtrader.com</A><BR>"Learn to
read the tape"<BR><BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bill Eykyn<BR><A
href="http://www.t-bondtrader.com";>www.t-bondtrader.com</A><BR>"Learn to
read the tape"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Mon Jun 12 18:29:38 2000
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From: "T-Bondtrader" <t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "<realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>"
<realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References: <034c01bfd0be$f5c11a60$c259fd3e@xxxx> <000301bfd16f$304ad990$c6e3aec7@xxxx>
Subject: [RT] Re: Indicators
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:20:33 +0100
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Could be some task! But what is the
indicator going to tell you that you cannot see in front of you as it
happens? Are we thinking your eyes would not see what the machine
sees? Would an indicator make you pull the trigger, because you would believe
the machine rather than your own eyes? Or is it to allow
you to be away from the machine and just wait for some alert to go off?
Plus a mass of other questions, before you even start...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To be of real value the indicator has to be
better, faster and more accurate than you watching the price action and making
the trade assessment for yourself. It has to be worth the
considerable, I imagine, effort in working through all the permutations, etc, to
write it. The beauty of learning to read the tape is that you do not need
a sophisticated approach; it need not be expensive to sit down and absorb
what has to be done, utilizing pretty simple and cheap(ish!) tools.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As I have said before, I am very game (still!) to
try any indicator. I would love an easier way (or perhaps lazier way) of
trading. Set up the machine, put in the indicators, wait for the signals
and cash in the money. Yippee !! There are loads of systems
out there that more or less say that is what you can do on all sorts of
instruments - particularly the S&P! It is all rubbish as we
know.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now using Elliot Wave for position trading and the
various systems and indicators around the concept is a whole different ball
game. I have never embarked on it myself, but a lot of people clearly make
money using these tools - and many on this list. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Personally, I have never found anything that let's
me predict tomorrow - not in a way which will let me have confidence enough to
put my money on it. The daily chart, is a help, a confirmation tool,
an aid to what might happen: take the recent Telegraph Pole on the
bonds. Looked a dead ringer for lower prices (and I said so on my
website) but, one asks four days later, when? How you would trade that
knowledge (if it turns out to be right in the end) as a position player, I know
not. As a day trader, there has been good loot to take out during
each day, so it doesn't really matter. I did punt some puts, but after a
couple of days, I bought them back with a tiny profit - compared with the
previous occasion, when they were well in the money. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For me, I reckon you have to be at your machine
(when you want to be for as long as you want to be, but making due allowances
for the time devoted) and follow the price action along, using an holistic
approach incorporating straightforward drawing tools and you have every
opportunity to end up putting bread on the table.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>But... produce an indicator that does it all
for you... I'd love to try it!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bill Eykyn<BR><A
href="http://www.t-bondtrader.com";>www.t-bondtrader.com</A><BR>"Learn to read
the tape"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:sptrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=sptrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>sptrader</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>T-Bondtrader</A> ; <A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 08, 2000 3:40
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Indicators</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Maybe we should all concentrate on creating indicators
that identify the patterns and support-resist levels-and give alerts when they
are present.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Steve</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>T-Bondtrader</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 07, 2000 2:28
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Indicators</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This is a re-send, as it has not appeared (on
my screen!)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>>With all due respect, you<BR>> seem to
have quite a narrow definition of "indicator<BR><BR>I don't mean to take
this sentence out of context, but I believe that it is<BR>the nub the
issue.<BR><BR>Indicators are, so far as I am concerned, all those in the
analysis<BR>techniques box in my Supercharts. I have collected
over 100 in my time and<BR>they are all lagging and, for day trading
purposes useless.<BR><BR>Take today's action on the bonds: look
at the chart and you will see<BR>exactly what I mean. Price
patterns, support and resistance and other<BR>tools will give you a much
better and faster and more profitable result than<BR>using an
indicator. That ADX was right - miles after the event.
Fine,<BR>perhaps, for position trading, or showing how clever it is after
the action<BR>is all over - but, frankly, useless to a day trader who is
reading the<BR>market as it goes along.<BR><BR>The wedge or whatever you
want to call it was the signal. At the time.<BR>Clear and
simple. No lagging. No the ball. What else do you
want? The<BR>J-Hook into new territory was the
signal. Measuring the retracement means<BR>using a tool, not an
indicator. Support and resistance are facts in
the<BR>market. They are not indicators. They happened and
can be relied on.<BR>Price action is the market showing what it is doing, as
it is doing it. If<BR>it forms a wedge it is telling what it is
doing. What indicator can work as<BR>fast or as accurately as
that? What? Tell me. I will use
it. So would<BR>about 50 or so others on this list who trade in my
like fashion.<BR><BR>Anyone can use whatever they like. That is there
privilege. All I know is<BR>that what I have found to work and can
show works, works.<BR><BR>'Nuff said. Supper time over
here...<BR><BR><BR><BR>Bill Eykyn<BR><A
href="http://www.t-bondtrader.com";>www.t-bondtrader.com</A><BR>"Learn to
read the tape"<BR><BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bill Eykyn<BR><A
href="http://www.t-bondtrader.com";>www.t-bondtrader.com</A><BR>"Learn to
read the tape"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Mon Jun 12 18:16:51 2000
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From: "rhbishop" <rhbishop@xxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References: <3938034D.DD7A93FE@xxxxxxxxxxxx> <007701bfd117$834edd60$0100a8c0@xxxxxxxxx> <393FB973.BF8F8A61@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RT] Re: OPTIONS
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 15:37:03 -0400
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Status:
Bill W.
Thanks for your info. I would indeed like to know about Ameritrade's on
line spread order capability. Please send to me privately if you wish at
rhbishop@xxxxxxxx
Now for the second part. I'm just somewhere North of a beginner with
spreads. I'm using software called AIQ Option Expert which works with
either delayed or realtime MyTrack feed. Total Cost delayed 39 / Month
Realtime 59/Month (I Think). Takes all the quotes etc for a Stock and
computes the best trades for each major strategy. I use for stocks but can
be used for futures option too. I'm impressed for the price but have
nothing to compare with. I'm looking for conservative Bull Diagonal and
Time, Neutral Time, and Bear Diagonal and Time Spreads depending on my
outlook for the underlying. I'm finding some super ROI figures at better
than 90% Breakeven Probability. Many at 99 to 100% BE. If you have
questions I'll be happy to reply. If you have suggestions, I'll be even
happier.
Bob
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