|
PureBytes Links
Trading Reference Links
|
<x-html><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2722.2800" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Perhaps a tool for every use. I've traded on-line for 4-5
years, futures on-line for around two years. I don't trade on-line to save
money, I trade on-line because I don't trade lots in any pit big enough to
justify my personal direct to floor broker phone and I don't like talking to
busy, harried, and sometimes rude futures order desks. In short, I work my own
trading plan and I want no advise or psychological interference from an order
desk. The software keeps track of my orders, allows me to "park" planned
orders well in advance of use, "park" stop loss orders to be fired immediately
upon receipt of a fill notice, and provides a daily e-mail recap with my open
positions and orders. In most cases the electronic system will get an order to
the side of the pit faster than picking up a phone and dialing the order desk.
In most cases the fill report will be a little, but not much faster, than
waiting for a fill report by return phone call - notifications out of the pit
are still handled by clerks. In the case of fully electronic traded futures
(globex based e-mini and currencies), executions and fill reports will be
virtually instantaneous.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>All of this electronic convenience does not mean that I don't
keep accounts open with two brokers both of which provide phone desks to backup
the electronic system. Those backup desks are on autodialer and I have yet to
experience a significant loss due to electronic system outage. Generally, while
the electronic futures orders systems have a long way to go, they have improved
a great deal in the two years I have been using them. I keep a file of system
outage notices which was collecting huge numbers for over a year through
last spring, however I have a total of 9 outage messages for the past six months
which is a major improvement.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>A year ago I was a vocal critic of LeoWeb and the TOPS
outages, however I continued to use it as a backup system while using a number
of others. I continue to use it to this day and it has steadily improved in
small but import ways and I would recommend it for consideration by those
looking for an electronic order system. Generally, I have found browser based
order systems to be disappointing. I also continue to recommend the Interactive
Broker Trader's Workstation for e-mini day trading, however I would
consider a backup account with another broker to be essential even though IB has
added emergency phone backup.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:gmkramer@xxxxxxxxxxxx"; title=gmkramer@xxxxxxxxxxxx>Gary
Kramer</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 17, 1999 2:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [realtraders] BEWARE OF ONLINE
TRADING! {01}</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Although I have touted the benefits of several online firms on this
forum, I<BR>retract them all! As of today, I have closed my emini
account and am<BR>opening an account with RJ Obrien to trade bonds the old
fashioned way! i<BR>cant tell you the frustration of trying to enter
trades and having the<BR>system hang, being in a trade and not being able to
get out because of<BR>probs, or not knowing whether you are in a trade or not
because of system<BR>problems! I have lost lots of $$$ because of
these problems and cant count<BR>the amount of $ I could have made had I
been able to place trades.<BR>Etrading has a long way to go!<BR><BR><BR>And
What a Surprise that Globex2 fails towards the end of today!</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><BR>--<BR><BR><BR><BR>Gary Kramer<BR>1-877-866-9761 (Voice mail
and Fax)<BR><BR><BR><BR>--<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></EM>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><BR></EM> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Wed Nov 17 17:20:26 1999
Return-Path: <owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Received: from mail.thetrellis.net ([208.179.56.11])
by purebytes.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA11015
for <neal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 18:16:17 -0800
Received: from REALTRADERS.COM
([208.179.56.198])
by mail.thetrellis.net; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:10:42 -0800
Received: from icx.net by realtraders.com
with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R)
for <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:08:31 +0000
Received: from p450 (pm17i.icx.net [216.82.8.72])
by icx.net (IDG-2.7/1.3nr) with SMTP id UAA11767
for <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:09:24 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <003701bf3161$a45eacc0$480852d8@xxxx>
From: "Randall Kurzon" <rkurzon@xxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References: <001801bf307a$6dd3be80$64c356d1@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [realtraders] GOsc {02}
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:10:02 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0034_01BF3137.BB3617F0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-Return-Path: rkurzon@xxxxxxx
Sender: owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-MDMailing-List: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-MDSend-Notifications-To: owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Reply-To: rkurzon@xxxxxxx
Status:
<x-html><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I took the time to reply to your request for the
messages you mention below yet you have not replied to let me know if that is
what you were looking for. I suggest that anyone asking for a list member to
provide files, historic data, or anything else should have the simple courtesy
to say yes I received it. I don't know how many times I have sent data or other
info to people requesting it and then never hear a word from them. I
don't live for the thanks but after a while it gets to the point that there
is no interest in helping anyone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sincerely, Randall</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:mpspencer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=mpspencer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>mpspencer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 16, 1999
16:34</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [realtraders] GOsc {01}</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>I've recently switched over from digest format
in order to receive charts intact. The posts on the GOsc have caught my
interest, but unfortunately, I have missed most of the preliminary discussion
that would allow me to fully comprehend what's going on. If anyone could
repost some of this info, or send it to me directly, it would be most
appreciated.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Many thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Michael Spencer</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2><A
href="mailto:mpspencer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>mpspencer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>
</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Wed Nov 17 17:20:40 1999
Return-Path: <owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Received: from mail.thetrellis.net ([208.179.56.11])
by purebytes.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA11090
for <neal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 18:19:02 -0800
Received: from REALTRADERS.COM
([208.179.56.198])
by mail.thetrellis.net; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:13:01 -0800
Received: from mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net by realtraders.com
with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R)
for <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:10:20 +0000
Received: from storefull-128.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-128.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.57])
by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9FF1334
for <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:11:16 -0800 (PST)
Received: (from production@xxxxxxxxx) by storefull-128.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-d/mt.gso.26Feb98) id RAA27557; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:11:16 -0800 (PST)
X-WebTV-Signature: 1
ETAtAhUAlyA6TEAZr/vLR6R4hJPGTk9rb4ICFCdNkYjmFKR5F385mPlHjKQWHMpc
From: NolteArch@xxxxxxxxx (rick nolte)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:11:16 -0500 (EST)
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [realtraders] BEWARE OF ONLINE TRADING! {02}
Message-ID: <1333-38335234-1463@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
In-Reply-To: "Gary Kramer" <gmkramer@xxxxxxxxxxxx>'s message of Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:30:45 -0600
Content-Disposition: Inline
Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=WebTV-Mail-31874-734
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-Return-Path: NolteArch@xxxxxxxxx
Sender: owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-MDMailing-List: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-MDSend-Notifications-To: owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Reply-To: NolteArch@xxxxxxxxx
Status:
Gary,
The telephone is still GREAT technology.
Online is fine in "quiet" market times, but for this novice stock
trader another 5 bucks for an almost instant confirmation is well with
it!
Good Trading,
Rick
Received: from mailsorter-102-1.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.98) by
storefull-125.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Wed, 17 Nov 1999
13:35:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mailsorter-102-1.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) id C502E406;
Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:35:21 -0800 (PST)
Delivered-To: noltearch@xxxxxxxxx
Received: from mail.thetrellis.net (unknown [208.179.56.11]) by
mailsorter-102-1.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with SMTP id
66EBD520 for <noltearch@xxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:35:21 -0800
(PST)
Received: from REALTRADERS.COM ([208.179.56.198]) by mail.thetrellis.net;
Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:32:44 -0800
Received: from elmls01.ce.mediaone.net by realtraders.com with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R)
for <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:30:32 +0000
Received: from oemcomputer (el03-24-131-169-83.ce.mediaone.net
[24.131.169.83]) by elmls01.ce.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP
id PAA02545 for <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999
15:33:23 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <020101bf3143$02a1ef00$53a98318@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Gary Kramer" <gmkramer@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [realtraders] BEWARE OF ONLINE TRADING! {01}
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:30:45 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01FE_01BF3110.B7A2C9C0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-Return-Path: gmkramer@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sender: owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-MDMailing-List: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-MDSend-Notifications-To: owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Reply-To: gmkramer@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<x-html><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><EM>Although I have touted the benefits of several online firms on this
forum, I<BR>retract them all! As of today, I have closed my emini account
and am<BR>opening an account with RJ Obrien to trade bonds the old fashioned
way! i<BR>cant tell you the frustration of trying to enter trades and
having the<BR>system hang, being in a trade and not being able to get out
because of<BR>probs, or not knowing whether you are in a trade or not because of
system<BR>problems! I have lost lots of $$$ because of these
problems and cant count<BR>the amount of $ I could have made had I been
able to place trades.<BR>Etrading has a long way to go!<BR><BR><BR>And What a
Surprise that Globex2 fails towards the end of today!</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><BR>--<BR><BR><BR><BR>Gary Kramer<BR>1-877-866-9761 (Voice mail
and Fax)<BR><BR><BR><BR>--<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></EM>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><BR></EM> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Wed Nov 17 18:11:07 1999
Return-Path: <owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Received: from mail.thetrellis.net ([208.179.56.11])
by purebytes.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA11632
for <neal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 18:43:46 -0800
Received: from REALTRADERS.COM
([208.179.56.198])
by mail.thetrellis.net; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:38:08 -0800
Received: from mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net by realtraders.com
with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R)
for <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:35:55 +0000
Received: from storefull-128.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-128.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.57])
by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id C39BC297B7
for <Realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:31:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: (from production@xxxxxxxxx) by storefull-128.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-d/mt.gso.26Feb98) id RAA28718; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:31:37 -0800 (PST)
X-WebTV-Signature: 1
ETAtAhRsFwQtm+kHIxhNHtSOT371MpLDSQIVAItOXctlUVzBiFFdUyvOEfi3B0LB
From: NolteArch@xxxxxxxxx (rick nolte)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:31:37 -0500 (EST)
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [realtraders] As I Ponder {03} Stock trading/investment {01}
Message-ID: <1331-383356F9-2027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
In-Reply-To: jerry ross <jerryr@xxxxxxxxxxx>'s message of Wed, 17 Nov 1999
14:13:09 -0800
Content-Disposition: Inline
Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=WebTV-Mail-9110-1022
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-Return-Path: NolteArch@xxxxxxxxx
Sender: owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-MDMailing-List: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-MDSend-Notifications-To: owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Reply-To: NolteArch@xxxxxxxxx
Status:
Jerry,
Spoken like a Pitbull! Sell for a profit with enthusiasum. I like the
"free trade" approach, selling half my position on a 100% gain, thus
holding the other half with no basis. Kind of like trading into an
investment . Works well in the current bull market for me.Incidently, I
look at weekly charts on stocks for various technical signals.
Trade Well,
Rick
Received: from mailsorter-101-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.96) by
storefull-123.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Wed, 17 Nov 1999
14:39:55 -0800 (PST)
Return-Path: <owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Received: from mail.thetrellis.net ([208.179.56.11]) by
mailsorter-101-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-d/ms.dwm.v7+dul2)
with SMTP id OAA06933 for <noltearch@xxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999
14:39:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from REALTRADERS.COM ([208.179.56.198]) by mail.thetrellis.net;
Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:35:03 -0800
Received: from mail.clipper.net by realtraders.com with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R)
for <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:32:10 +0000
Received: from clipper.net (ppp32.comm02.eug.clipper.net [216.116.34.32])
by mail.clipper.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12223; Wed, 17
Nov 1999 14:11:16 -0800
Message-ID: <38332875.4B2D98E5@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:13:09 -0800
From: jerry ross <jerryr@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: jerryr@xxxxxxxxxxx
Organization: >>retired<<
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
CC: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [realtraders] As I Ponder {03}
References: <4.1.19991117113029.00c74320@xxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mail.clipper.net id
OAA12223
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-Return-Path: jerryr@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sender: owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-MDMailing-List: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-MDSend-Notifications-To: owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I agree, the time frame is not related to trading success, but it
influences trading style. Indicators and systems tend to work best on
the short time frame. Fundamentals, company selection best for longer
term traders. Buy and hold only need be in when market advancing
continually. Many small gains compounded often are more lucrative than
the one larger gain encountered infrequently
P.S. Mark, I like you logo -- mind if I use it
.oİş°¨¨°şİ>>[ JERRY ROSS ]<<İş°¨¨°şİo.
Alexander Levitin wrote:
>
> Dear Pondering Mark,
>
> Is time frame traders choose correlated to the amount of trading capital?
>
> If what we know (from the books) about "great" traders is true then - no.
> There are traders with substantial capital that trade short term (on the
> floor) and there are traders with large capital that trade long term (Mr.
> Baffett).
>
> The time frame (in my opinion) correlated with trading style, the trading
> style correlated with so called "psychological" make up of the trader (the
> "personality" of the trader) even nobody knows what it means. The trading
> style also influenced by the "education of the trader" (how he/she get
> started to trade and how he/she progress in it).
>
> The capital of the trader is derivative of the trader's success. Trading
> business is such that successful trader increase his/her capital very fast,
> and if the success is "systematic" (result of the trading approach) as
> opposite of the "luck" then capital stays large and continue to grow (in
> slower pace, understandable). On the contrary, the trading capital
> disappears with the speed of light if the trader received it through the
> luck either in trading or in other walks of life (inheritance, sale of the
> previous business, etc.)
>
> There are a specific problems to each trading time frame and different size
> of trading capital. Also the "betting success average" (number of times the
> trader is "right") presents specific set of problems.
>
> There is nothing more important in traders life then "money management" (or
> give that field any other name). No amount of "greatness" (Jessy Livermore)
> could save you without it.
>
> Opinionated Alex.
>
> At 11:21 AM 11/16/99 -0600, Mark Brown wrote:
> > ... Do you think the correlation is between looser in the
> > market and the time frames in which they follow? In other words do
> > you think that smaller time frames observed = less money made? Do
> > you think there are any correlations between the amount of money
> > put to risk vs the amount of money made?
> >
> > I have observed the following samplings of data. Less money = less
> > risk tolerated = less winners = faster depletion of trading capital
> > = less experience = more obsession with every tick of data = more
> > concern for commission cost = more enthusiasm for the passing new
> > guru of the day = willingness to listen to the pro's warnings (who
> > say this business is much harder than the magazines lead you to
> > belive) only after the money's gone and the day job is back in
> > everyday life.
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >.oİş°¨¨°şİ[ WWW.MARKBROWN.COM ]İş°¨¨°şİo.
> >
--
|