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Scheier wrote:
Having purchased the course, are you in any way given credit or
remuneration for referrals?
Great question Mr. Scheier! I wish. <:-o
They (Drummond/Hearne) did not ask me to write it either. They asked a
friend of mine who was not inclined to reply. But I felt the drive to do it
and before I knew it, there was the "War and Peace" version of a Drummond
review. My only credit is my future good karma for effort, honesty and a
high intention :) I have always deeply appreciated help from others (heaven
knows I need it a plenty) and hope to return the kindness.
I hope it bodes well for everyone that reads it.
CCP
scheier
<scheier@xxxx To: talexander@xxxxxxxxxxxx
s.com> cc:
Subject: Re: Drummond Market Geometry: Long
02/12/2001 Reply
09:36 AM
Having purchased the course, are you in any way given credit
or remuneration for referrals?
talexander@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> In way of intro: I'm a Drummond neophyte. Just finished all the lessons
> over Christmas and have been paper trading bonds, beans, wheat, Canadian
> Dollar and Eurodollar. Was a stock broker and option trader. Long time
> software engineer, coding EL for a few years. I've written and tested
many
> systems, my own and from books and purchased. Not a professional trader.
> Yet.
>
> Futures Magazine has a nice article about discretionary trading this
month
> and the first part hits the nail on the head: Discretionary trading is
> great if you can manage your emotions. I've coded and tested hundreds of
> systems simple and complex. I've got systems using Steidlmayer and
Overlays
> that are twenty pages long and take 4 hours to run. And guess what, the
> best signal processor by far is my brain! Just try coding a simple
triangle
> pattern when your eye can pick one out in a fraction of a second and your
> code still misses it because of ONE bit of noise. I suggest Mark Douglas'
> brilliant, comprehensive and eye-opening book, "The Disciplined Trader"
for
> system or discretionary traders. Anyone that believes the line, "Use
system
> trading and remove the emotional difficulties of trading..." is either
new
> in town or is simply waiting for their first system drawdown :)
>
> Nevertheless, trading without a METHOD, coded or otherwise is like taking
> on a double diamond in your first skiing lesson! Drummond Geometry is a
> method. And, if you are diligent, love a challenge and are a good coder,
> you can even program those methods into systems. Do you have to? No. The
> point is making money. Not making software systems.
>
> You're exactly right, it is very expensive! But to cover the same
material
> in the same depth in a seminar or classroom setting would easily take two
> very packed and rushed weeks, forty hours a week with lots of homework.
> Where I can get two weeks of intensive, detailed and lucrative training
for
> less than four grand? Maybe one of those ads, "How to have an Exciting
> Career as a Travel Agent from your Own Home!" Yeah. I'm a reasonably
> intelligent guy and a hard worker. I guess I spent over 200 hours on the
30
> lessons. And, I'm reviewing them now and can continue to do so for the
next
> several years if I want. That's about $20 an hour and dropping fast. I
wish
> I could get a Swedish massage that cheap!
>
> Up to about lesson 25, I had the same question you did, "When am I going
to
> learn how to trade this?" Can you just learn lessons 25-30 and trade? I
> doubt it. Why? What's one of the hardest things about trading?
CONFIDENCE!
> Anyone that thinks they can read one book and make money in the markets
is
> a true friend of Traders Press and Barnes and Noble. By the time I got to
> lesson 30, I was so damned stuffed with Drummond Geometry examples I
would
> have to be the village idiot's butler not to have confidence in the
stuff.
> Okay, maybe Ted Hearne is an overachiever. Maybe he's a sadist. Maybe he
> loves creating thousands of examples and screens and it's his road to the
> Pearly Gates. Doesn't matter to me. All I know is that, I HAVE BEEN
> COMPLETELY TRAINED. Larry Williams is my other hero and I've read every
one
> of his books several times and it never came close to my virtual PhD in
> Drummond Geometry. If it were easy, 85% of all traders would not be
losers
> :)
>
> So, what's wrong with the course? An index or even just a detailed table
of
> contents would be a godsend. An overview of all the major Drummond
elements
> and how they fit would be grand. I love the trees but I don't want to
wait
> to the final lessons to find out whether I'm in southern Germany's Black
> Forest or California's redwoods. Reviewing the lessons a second time
while
> paper trading I realize, "Oh wow. This is not that complicated. It's a
big
> country but there are only a few provinces in it." Money management
> techniques are covered but very simply. You won't find detailed
statistical
> regression analysis of MFE vs drawdown values. Thank goodness. If you
want
> that, I suggest Rina Software's two grand software and two grand weekend
> seminar. (Gee. There's a four grand deal just for money management :)
>
> All you system jockeys, forget about popping the indicators in a system.
> The code is locked, for good reason. But, if you understand the methods,
> you can certainly write up your own systems and patterns. You can even do
> that from the latest Pruitt and Hill book that contains a chapter on
> Drummond. I found it easy enough and I'm no whiz kid. Be forewarned
though,
> using just that one chapter it will be like driving a car with only a
first
> gear. You'll get there but the high pitched whine and 10mph max speed
will
> drive you to seizures and tears.
>
> Forget about just using the books from Drummond directly. Ted Hearne's
> never withering laurels rest on the fact that he took thousands of pages
of
> chart scribbled notes, difficult to read photocopies of stochastically
> formatted text and composed that mind boggling Shoenberg-like masterpiece
> into Wagnerian clarity. Long? True. Comprehensive, coherent and melodic?
> You bet.
>
> Well, sorry for the long post! If anyone has any other questions that a
> beginner can answer, let me know. If you are looking for an easy way to
> make money in the markets, good luck! I'll tell you what, I'll sell you a
> dozen for half the price and you can lose four times that amount trading
it
> :-0)
>
> Happy trading!
>
> Would welcome criticisms, disagreements, rebuttals, especially from
> Drummond traders, of the following impressions upon visiting the Drummond
> Geometry
> website (www.Tedtick.com):
>
> Author Ted Hearne claims that Drummond is a reclusive, brilliant,
> Canadian trader, "partially retired" in Nova Scotia, whom author Hearne
> claims
> took "nine figures out of the markets".
>
> 1) Looks like another "discretionary system", with all the problems
> that implies: It will boil down to your ability to subjectively apply
> rules
> stated in "lessons", that in total, cost $3475. Will you be able to get
> through 30 lessons, (each block of five will cost $695) and have
> something
> concrete you can trade with at the end of the tunnel?
>
> 2) Looks like author Ted Hearne is the "popularizer" of Drummond's
> methods, in these lessons; you will end up getting Drummond second hand
> via
> Hearne.
>
> 3) A sample of the writing style, in the first lesson, indicates long
> winded explanations that are hard to operationalize. I kept asking
> myself:
> "When is the author going to get the point and tell me how to trade with
> this?" Lot's of talk about "energy flow", etc. ("Deep Learning" Hypnosis
> Tapes are available for an additional $45). Been there; heard that. In
> fact, in a review cited by John Hill of Future's Truth, Hill states:
"It
> [the
> 30 lesson course] is not inexpensive and unless one is willing to devote
> many hours to studying the material, you may not get value." Even if you
> do
> study intensely, and "get value", will you be able to trade successfully
> with it?
>
> 4) Drummond Geometry indicators for Trade Station are available at still
> additional cost ($605), so we are up to about $4080 with no Easy Language
> system code.
>
> 5) No evidence by author Hearne that Drummond's methods can be concisely
> written and tested via Easy Language on various markets and time frames.
> A bare bones "track record" is reported, but it is clear it was obtained
> via subjective rule application (by John Hill? by author Hearne?). I
think
> you would end up pulling your hair out trying to write testable code in
all
> the "multiple time-frame" charts that the Drummond method employs.
>
> 6) Even if Drummond's entry rules result in decent entries, the method
> in total will end up being only as good as the stops and money management
> that go with it. One would need EL system code to optimize stops on
> today's
> markets and timeframes of your choice, and that is not available.
>
> 7) There is a bright spot, and potential value for the dollar: Drummond
> himself published several books, each of which will cost $170. For
> example:
> "How to make money in the futures market - and lot's of it", 1978,
> Drummond Publications, looks intriguing. (Unfortunately, the publisher
is
> not a
> standard one such as John Wiley, McGraw-Hill, etc., so you probably
> cannot order it from Amazon.com at a lower cost.) However, this book
could
> be a
> good source of ideas for indicator and system testing in Easy Language.
>
> Peter
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