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Nice write up. Thanks.
>Just try coding a simple triangle
>pattern when your eye can pick one out in a fraction of a second and your
>code still misses it because of ONE bit of noise.
Agreed. If your trading style depends on pattern recognition this will occur
too
often to be dependable. However, pattern recognition is only one method of
trading
or one element of trading if your system is multi-faceted.
A trading system can be developed without it.
>And, if you are diligent, love a challenge and are a good coder,
>you can even program those methods into systems. Do you have to? No. The
>point is making money. Not making software systems.
I'd have to say the point is that you're going to be staring at a screen 400
minutes a
day searching for patterns, five days a week until the day you retire.
>All I know is that, I HAVE BEEN
>COMPLETELY TRAINED.
I hope so and I wish you the best. Please keep us informed as to how well it
works.
However, you might want to hold off on that word "COMPLETELY" until you've
taken the blanks out of the gun.
dbs
talexander@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Nevertheless, trading without a METHOD, coded or otherwise is like taking
> on a double diamond in your first skiing lesson! Drummond Geometry is a
> method. And, if you are diligent, love a challenge and are a good coder,
> you can even program those methods into systems. Do you have to? No. The
> point is making money. Not making software systems.
>
> You're exactly right, it is very expensive! But to cover the same material
> in the same depth in a seminar or classroom setting would easily take two
> very packed and rushed weeks, forty hours a week with lots of homework.
> Where I can get two weeks of intensive, detailed and lucrative training for
> less than four grand? Maybe one of those ads, "How to have an Exciting
> Career as a Travel Agent from your Own Home!" Yeah. I'm a reasonably
> intelligent guy and a hard worker. I guess I spent over 200 hours on the 30
> lessons. And, I'm reviewing them now and can continue to do so for the next
> several years if I want. That's about $20 an hour and dropping fast. I wish
> I could get a Swedish massage that cheap!
>
> Up to about lesson 25, I had the same question you did, "When am I going to
> learn how to trade this?" Can you just learn lessons 25-30 and trade? I
> doubt it. Why? What's one of the hardest things about trading? CONFIDENCE!
> Anyone that thinks they can read one book and make money in the markets is
> a true friend of Traders Press and Barnes and Noble. By the time I got to
> lesson 30, I was so damned stuffed with Drummond Geometry examples I would
> have to be the village idiot's butler not to have confidence in the stuff.
> Okay, maybe Ted Hearne is an overachiever. Maybe he's a sadist. Maybe he
> loves creating thousands of examples and screens and it's his road to the
> Pearly Gates. Doesn't matter to me. All I know is that, I HAVE BEEN
> COMPLETELY TRAINED. Larry Williams is my other hero and I've read every one
> of his books several times and it never came close to my virtual PhD in
> Drummond Geometry. If it were easy, 85% of all traders would not be losers
> :)
>
> So, what's wrong with the course? An index or even just a detailed table of
> contents would be a godsend. An overview of all the major Drummond elements
> and how they fit would be grand. I love the trees but I don't want to wait
> to the final lessons to find out whether I'm in southern Germany's Black
> Forest or California's redwoods. Reviewing the lessons a second time while
> paper trading I realize, "Oh wow. This is not that complicated. It's a big
> country but there are only a few provinces in it." Money management
> techniques are covered but very simply. You won't find detailed statistical
> regression analysis of MFE vs drawdown values. Thank goodness. If you want
> that, I suggest Rina Software's two grand software and two grand weekend
> seminar. (Gee. There's a four grand deal just for money management :)
>
> All you system jockeys, forget about popping the indicators in a system.
> The code is locked, for good reason. But, if you understand the methods,
> you can certainly write up your own systems and patterns. You can even do
> that from the latest Pruitt and Hill book that contains a chapter on
> Drummond. I found it easy enough and I'm no whiz kid. Be forewarned though,
> using just that one chapter it will be like driving a car with only a first
> gear. You'll get there but the high pitched whine and 10mph max speed will
> drive you to seizures and tears.
>
> Forget about just using the books from Drummond directly. Ted Hearne's
> never withering laurels rest on the fact that he took thousands of pages of
> chart scribbled notes, difficult to read photocopies of stochastically
> formatted text and composed that mind boggling Shoenberg-like masterpiece
> into Wagnerian clarity. Long? True. Comprehensive, coherent and melodic?
> You bet.
>
> Well, sorry for the long post! If anyone has any other questions that a
> beginner can answer, let me know. If you are looking for an easy way to
> make money in the markets, good luck! I'll tell you what, I'll sell you a
> dozen for half the price and you can lose four times that amount trading it
> :-0)
>
> Happy trading!
>
> Would welcome criticisms, disagreements, rebuttals, especially from
> Drummond traders, of the following impressions upon visiting the Drummond
> Geometry
> website (www.Tedtick.com):
>
> Author Ted Hearne claims that Drummond is a reclusive, brilliant,
> Canadian trader, "partially retired" in Nova Scotia, whom author Hearne
> claims
> took "nine figures out of the markets".
>
> 1) Looks like another "discretionary system", with all the problems
> that implies: It will boil down to your ability to subjectively apply
> rules
> stated in "lessons", that in total, cost $3475. Will you be able to get
> through 30 lessons, (each block of five will cost $695) and have
> something
> concrete you can trade with at the end of the tunnel?
>
> 2) Looks like author Ted Hearne is the "popularizer" of Drummond's
> methods, in these lessons; you will end up getting Drummond second hand
> via
> Hearne.
>
> 3) A sample of the writing style, in the first lesson, indicates long
> winded explanations that are hard to operationalize. I kept asking
> myself:
> "When is the author going to get the point and tell me how to trade with
> this?" Lot's of talk about "energy flow", etc. ("Deep Learning" Hypnosis
> Tapes are available for an additional $45). Been there; heard that. In
> fact, in a review cited by John Hill of Future's Truth, Hill states: "It
> [the
> 30 lesson course] is not inexpensive and unless one is willing to devote
> many hours to studying the material, you may not get value." Even if you
> do
> study intensely, and "get value", will you be able to trade successfully
> with it?
>
> 4) Drummond Geometry indicators for Trade Station are available at still
> additional cost ($605), so we are up to about $4080 with no Easy Language
> system code.
>
> 5) No evidence by author Hearne that Drummond's methods can be concisely
> written and tested via Easy Language on various markets and time frames.
> A bare bones "track record" is reported, but it is clear it was obtained
> via subjective rule application (by John Hill? by author Hearne?). I think
> you would end up pulling your hair out trying to write testable code in all
> the "multiple time-frame" charts that the Drummond method employs.
>
> 6) Even if Drummond's entry rules result in decent entries, the method
> in total will end up being only as good as the stops and money management
> that go with it. One would need EL system code to optimize stops on
> today's
> markets and timeframes of your choice, and that is not available.
>
> 7) There is a bright spot, and potential value for the dollar: Drummond
> himself published several books, each of which will cost $170. For
> example:
> "How to make money in the futures market - and lot's of it", 1978,
> Drummond Publications, looks intriguing. (Unfortunately, the publisher is
> not a
> standard one such as John Wiley, McGraw-Hill, etc., so you probably
> cannot order it from Amazon.com at a lower cost.) However, this book could
> be a
> good source of ideas for indicator and system testing in Easy Language.
>
> Peter
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