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Bob,
I don´t agree with what you have said because most of the traders are
tending between greed and fear. That´s the main problem.
Their solution is a system, without any emotion. If the system is stable
enough, they know about the possible draw-down etc. - then they will make
money with that.
I guess what you are talking about is the experienced trader who recognizes
what happened to him in the past and is willing and capable to learn. This
trader may possibly make much more money due to his "computer between his
ears". So far I agree. But - to be frank, how many of all traders are able
to trade that way ??
10 percent ?
Best regards
Claus.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Bob Heisler <bheisler@xxxxxxxxxx>
An: Don Roos <roos@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Alan Courchene <positionsize1@xxxxxxxxx>; List Omega
<omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Februar 2000 14:29
Betreff: Re: Which holds best promise?
> Hi Don,
>
> Actually I did not state that the entries determine the other factors and
I
> don't believe that is the case. I will use the same entries every day,
but
> how I manage those trades is dependent upon the other factors mentioned.
> There is no such thing as getting in "early", just like there is no such
> thing as slippage on a Market order. Nor does my fill have any bearing on
> how I will manage a trade. In fact, I would prefer to not even know my
fill
> price as that can cause you to mis-manage a trade. I just want to know
that
> I am in since the fill price has no bearing on my objectives for that
trade,
> how the trade progresses, etc., etc.
>
> The only thing I am concerned about is getting in "RIGHT", I.e. with the
> current momentum or through the center of a range, and that does not mean
> early by any means. And this applies to any timeframe that I trade from -
I
> use 5 minute charts and P&F charts to trade SP/ND/US/SF intraday, but I
also
> keep an eye on the longer term charts since the big money is making
> decisions based upon those.
>
> Unfortunately, many traders are obsessed by this desire to find the
> "perfect" or "early" entries because they believe that this reduces the
> risk/stop for that trade. The opposite is in fact true.
> And I do not believe in scalping as that puts the math of trading
decidedly
> against you. Each trade has to be managed based upon the conditions and
on
> it's own merits...previous trades or whether you are up or down for that
day
> are completely irrelevant.
>
> Yesterday was a perfect example of what I am talking about (and most days
> this year) - why take 2 points or so out of those huge moves we had on
both
> the S&P and ND. You need to have a trading plan that allows you to
> capitalize on that kind of volatility, and systems and indicators will not
> do that for you. The best computer ever invented is the one between our
own
> ears, and you must be able to use that to trade successfully. I know most
> folks believe that a 'system' will help their trading by removing the
> emotions inherent in trading, but again the opposite is in fact true.
>
> My apologies for getting a little off-topic.
>
> Bob
> www.rjhtrading.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Roos <roos@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Bob Heisler <bheisler@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: Alan Courchene <positionsize1@xxxxxxxxx>; List Omega
> <omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Which holds best promise?
>
>
> >Bob and Alan:
> >
> >Good info. Thanks. As you have stated, Bob, the entries are the
> determining
> >factor for the others in many ways.
> >
> >You guys know this, but it should also be noted that if your entry is not
> >optimal, your liklihood of being able to stay in the trade is smaller, as
> is
> >your ability to trade for a shorter period and still have a decent
reward:
> >risk. That is, poor entries require larger entry risks to prevent being
> whiped
> >out of the trade, and poor entries require a longer holding period or
> better
> >trending pattern to make the trade worthwhile. Poor entries will both
> reduce
> >your percent profitable trades and your average trade. The stops
required,
> are
> >therefore directly related to how optimally you can achieve entry without
> >lowering the percent of profitable trades. Also, many small accounts do
> not
> >have the luxury to decide whether to run 2 or 15 cars. So #1 (position)
> may not
> >be applicable, #2 (trade management) is dependent upon your entry. #3
> >(assessing of market environment) also is determined by wanting to get a
> good
> >entry as well as some prediliction for the continuance of the direction
> entered,
> >long enough to create a good reward to risk. (For example, one may
decide
> not
> >to trade during the midsession so as to avoid the light volume and the
> scalping
> >games of the floor piranha).
> >
> >So, from my experience (scalping and short term daytrading), entries are
> #1.
> >Your time frame for a trade may be a determining factor for the ordering
of
> your
> >priorities.
> >
> >Good idea for discussion, Valinda.
> >
> >Don
> >
> >
> >
> >Bob Heisler wrote:
> >
> >> I would prioritize them this way, and also add a couple of things.
> >>
> >> 1) Position size (no 1-lots)
> >> 2) Trade Management (stop placement, exit strategies, add-ons, etc.)
> >> 3) Sensitivity to the market environment (particularly for intraday
> trading)
> >> 4) Reading the price action (Entries, but also determines all of the
> above)
> >> 5) Trading without an OPINION or BIAS to market direction
> >>
> >> And I couldn't agree with Alan more that the entries are the least
> important
> >> as they are meaningless without the first 4 items.
> >>
> >> Bob Heisler
> >> www.rjhtrading.com
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Alan Courchene <positionsize1@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: List Omega <omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 4:20 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Which holds best promise?
> >>
> >> >I would prioritize them this way:
> >> >
> >> >1) Position adjustments (POSITION SIZE)
> >> >2) Stop management (RISK MGMT)
> >> >3) Pattern recognition (ENTRY)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >IMHO,
> >> >One and two are key!
> >> >Three is far less important.
> >> >
> >> >Alan C.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--- TradeWynne@xxxxxxx wrote:
> >> >> In a message dated 2/15/00 11:38:43 AM Pacific
> >> >> Standard Time,
> >> >> Valinda48524@xxxxxxx writes:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Which of the following trading approaches holds
> >> >> the most potential?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 1) Position adjustments
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 2) Pattern recognition
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 3) Stop management
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Valinda:
> >> >>
> >> >> Why are any of these mutually exclusive?
> >> >> I would do my best with all three.
> >> >>
> >> >> Bill Wynne
> >> >> SmartTrades.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >
>
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