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Hi Claus,
In order to trade successfully a person MUST learn how to control their
emotions while in the market. There is no way to avoid that. While a
system or proper trading education may be of help, we still need to conquer
the demons we all have - and greed and fear are among them. I don't know
how many traders are able to do that, but I do know that 85% or so lose
money. So maybe it's that remaining 10-15% that have learned to control
their emotions.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: CFischer <compsig@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: omega-list <omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx>; Bob Heisler <bheisler@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: Which holds best promise?
>Bob,
>
>I don´t agree with what you have said because most of the traders are
>tending between greed and fear. That´s the main problem.
>Their solution is a system, without any emotion. If the system is stable
>enough, they know about the possible draw-down etc. - then they will make
>money with that.
>
>I guess what you are talking about is the experienced trader who recognizes
>what happened to him in the past and is willing and capable to learn. This
>trader may possibly make much more money due to his "computer between his
>ears". So far I agree. But - to be frank, how many of all traders are able
>to trade that way ??
>10 percent ?
>
>Best regards
>Claus.
>
>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>Von: Bob Heisler <bheisler@xxxxxxxxxx>
>An: Don Roos <roos@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Cc: Alan Courchene <positionsize1@xxxxxxxxx>; List Omega
><omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Februar 2000 14:29
>Betreff: Re: Which holds best promise?
>
>
>> Hi Don,
>>
>> Actually I did not state that the entries determine the other factors and
>I
>> don't believe that is the case. I will use the same entries every day,
>but
>> how I manage those trades is dependent upon the other factors mentioned.
>> There is no such thing as getting in "early", just like there is no such
>> thing as slippage on a Market order. Nor does my fill have any bearing
on
>> how I will manage a trade. In fact, I would prefer to not even know my
>fill
>> price as that can cause you to mis-manage a trade. I just want to know
>that
>> I am in since the fill price has no bearing on my objectives for that
>trade,
>> how the trade progresses, etc., etc.
>>
>> The only thing I am concerned about is getting in "RIGHT", I.e. with the
>> current momentum or through the center of a range, and that does not mean
>> early by any means. And this applies to any timeframe that I trade
from -
>I
>> use 5 minute charts and P&F charts to trade SP/ND/US/SF intraday, but I
>also
>> keep an eye on the longer term charts since the big money is making
>> decisions based upon those.
>>
>> Unfortunately, many traders are obsessed by this desire to find the
>> "perfect" or "early" entries because they believe that this reduces the
>> risk/stop for that trade. The opposite is in fact true.
>> And I do not believe in scalping as that puts the math of trading
>decidedly
>> against you. Each trade has to be managed based upon the conditions and
>on
>> it's own merits...previous trades or whether you are up or down for that
>day
>> are completely irrelevant.
>>
>> Yesterday was a perfect example of what I am talking about (and most days
>> this year) - why take 2 points or so out of those huge moves we had on
>both
>> the S&P and ND. You need to have a trading plan that allows you to
>> capitalize on that kind of volatility, and systems and indicators will
not
>> do that for you. The best computer ever invented is the one between our
>own
>> ears, and you must be able to use that to trade successfully. I know
most
>> folks believe that a 'system' will help their trading by removing the
>> emotions inherent in trading, but again the opposite is in fact true.
>>
>> My apologies for getting a little off-topic.
>>
>> Bob
>> www.rjhtrading.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Don Roos <roos@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: Bob Heisler <bheisler@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> Cc: Alan Courchene <positionsize1@xxxxxxxxx>; List Omega
>> <omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:25 AM
>> Subject: Re: Which holds best promise?
>>
>>
>> >Bob and Alan:
>> >
>> >Good info. Thanks. As you have stated, Bob, the entries are the
>> determining
>> >factor for the others in many ways.
>> >
>> >You guys know this, but it should also be noted that if your entry is
not
>> >optimal, your liklihood of being able to stay in the trade is smaller,
as
>> is
>> >your ability to trade for a shorter period and still have a decent
>reward:
>> >risk. That is, poor entries require larger entry risks to prevent being
>> whiped
>> >out of the trade, and poor entries require a longer holding period or
>> better
>> >trending pattern to make the trade worthwhile. Poor entries will both
>> reduce
>> >your percent profitable trades and your average trade. The stops
>required,
>> are
>> >therefore directly related to how optimally you can achieve entry
without
>> >lowering the percent of profitable trades. Also, many small accounts
do
>> not
>> >have the luxury to decide whether to run 2 or 15 cars. So #1 (position)
>> may not
>> >be applicable, #2 (trade management) is dependent upon your entry. #3
>> >(assessing of market environment) also is determined by wanting to get a
>> good
>> >entry as well as some prediliction for the continuance of the direction
>> entered,
>> >long enough to create a good reward to risk. (For example, one may
>decide
>> not
>> >to trade during the midsession so as to avoid the light volume and the
>> scalping
>> >games of the floor piranha).
>> >
>> >So, from my experience (scalping and short term daytrading), entries are
>> #1.
>> >Your time frame for a trade may be a determining factor for the ordering
>of
>> your
>> >priorities.
>> >
>> >Good idea for discussion, Valinda.
>> >
>> >Don
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Bob Heisler wrote:
>> >
>> >> I would prioritize them this way, and also add a couple of things.
>> >>
>> >> 1) Position size (no 1-lots)
>> >> 2) Trade Management (stop placement, exit strategies, add-ons, etc.)
>> >> 3) Sensitivity to the market environment (particularly for intraday
>> trading)
>> >> 4) Reading the price action (Entries, but also determines all of the
>> above)
>> >> 5) Trading without an OPINION or BIAS to market direction
>> >>
>> >> And I couldn't agree with Alan more that the entries are the least
>> important
>> >> as they are meaningless without the first 4 items.
>> >>
>> >> Bob Heisler
>> >> www.rjhtrading.com
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Alan Courchene <positionsize1@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> To: List Omega <omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 4:20 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: Which holds best promise?
>> >>
>> >> >I would prioritize them this way:
>> >> >
>> >> >1) Position adjustments (POSITION SIZE)
>> >> >2) Stop management (RISK MGMT)
>> >> >3) Pattern recognition (ENTRY)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >IMHO,
>> >> >One and two are key!
>> >> >Three is far less important.
>> >> >
>> >> >Alan C.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >--- TradeWynne@xxxxxxx wrote:
>> >> >> In a message dated 2/15/00 11:38:43 AM Pacific
>> >> >> Standard Time,
>> >> >> Valinda48524@xxxxxxx writes:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Which of the following trading approaches holds
>> >> >> the most potential?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 1) Position adjustments
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 2) Pattern recognition
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 3) Stop management
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Valinda:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why are any of these mutually exclusive?
>> >> >> I would do my best with all three.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Bill Wynne
>> >> >> SmartTrades.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >
>>
>
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