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There are several software programs that are based on Gann,
Dynamic Trader 4, Advanced Get,MurreyMath just to name a few.
Metastock has the Gann Grid, Gann Fans, but I'll bet that nobody on
this forum even uses them, and if they do they probablly missuse
them.
Some of Gann's work is to square the High, Square the low, Square
the range, Square from 0.
Henry
--- In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "manohohman" <kelols@xxxx>
wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> I avoid the Gann debates because the people who like him defend
him
> vigorously. When I was looking at Gann's work, I read some history
on
> Gann to see where his work came from. Gann was fascinated with the
> relationship between price and time. He liked geometry also so he
> applied geometry to his study of time and price. The problem was
he
> also liked astrology and traveled the world studying it too. Some
of
> his favorite indicators came right out of Indian (country India)
> astrology tools. He also used astrology in his study of the market
> cycles.
>
> Gann was reputed to be a legendary trader, yet there is little
> historial evidence he did much trading. Other famous traders
living
> in the same era have documented evidence of their trading
histories.
> Gann was the "infomercial king" of his time. He sold educational
> materials and did seminars on his trading methods. He charged
$5000 a
> person to attend. Most market historians believe it was the
selling
> of his trading methods that made him his money. Jesse Livermore
was
> the most successful trader in that era and he didn't use anything
as
> complex as Gann.
>
> The last problem I have with Gann is no one has yet to prove that
> over any long period of time his methods out perform buy and hold.
> Here's a pitch from Lambert-Gann publishing. If this were true do
you
> think that the major banks on Wall Street would use anything else!
I
> have never found one bank using Gann. Nor have I found anyone who
can
> show that they are making an astounding 90% successful trades
using
> Gann. Everytime someone fails to make money with Gann, they are
told
> it's because they don't know how to use his methods properly. From
> what I've been able to find out to this point I have concluded
that
> Gann was the only one who could use Gann methods successfully. You
> will notice the advertisement doesn't say you will have 90%
> successful trades. In fact, it doesn't even say you will make
money.
>
> "W.D. Gann was one of the greatest traders of all time. His
ability
> to call market turns was, and still is, legendary. His profitable
> trades in the commodity and stock markets was an astounding 90%+!
>
> His trading profits are estimated to be a staggering $50 million
> dollars during the first half of the 20th century. Traders who
have
> studied his techniques have found great success in markets all
over
> the world."
>
> That being said, I am a proponent of whatever works. If you can
make
> money with Gann, who cares if he heard voices and talked to
himself.
>
> Good Trading Martin
>
> JO
>
>
> --- In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Martin Blain"
<martin@xxxx>
> wrote:
> > JO
> > You said it much more eloquently than me. Thank you.
> > Just to stick up for Gann a little and to continue the smoke
> analogy. Gann
> > was quite a mathematician. The star alignment thing may have
been
> smoke and
> > mirrors!
> > Regards Martin
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "manohohman" <kelols@xxxx>
> > To: <Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: November 22, 2003 11:11 PM
> > Subject: [Metastockusers] Re: Martin B and Ariel on Whinning
> >
> >
> > > Your post is interesting and it's a view point I hear often. I
> have
> > > traded stocks using both fundemental analysis and technical
> analysis.
> > > I find a combination is the best way to make money in the long
> run.
> > >
> > > The approach a successful trader takes is to design his trading
> > > business around his personality and emotinoal make-up as
opposed
> to
> > > designing it based on what's most profitable or the "best"
> > > indicators. I see that post on this site all the time usually
in
> form
> > > of the lame question. "Let's do a poll and find out what
> everybody's
> > > favorite indicators are". That's a ridiculous question. It's
like
> > > trying to decide what color to wear based on everybody else's
> > > favorite color.
> > >
> > > I have not met a single person who could not learn to improve
the
> > > return on their investments by using simple moving averages so
> they
> > > know when to buy and when to sell. That's TA.
> > >
> > > The thing that's really interesting is that there are very few
> > > systems that beat moving averages. According to Robert Colby
the
> > > author of The Encyclopedia of Technical Market Indicators, the
> bible
> > > of backtesting, a simple moving average system out performed
by
> and
> > > hold since 1928 by 51,712,052% Yeah, it's 52 million percent
> better
> > > than buy and hold. That's 10s of billions more in profit with a
> > > capital B. Of course that doesn't include taxes, commissions
and
> rake
> > > off by crooks. After that, you would only have $1.98 left, but
> hey,
> > > it's money.
> > >
> > > Too many people like to make things complex. Just look at Gann
> > > theory. Gann based his work on Indian astrology and star
> alignment,
> > > yet there are thousands of people who think trading with Gann
> gives
> > > them an edge. Well, you could call Miss Cleo on the psychic
> hotline
> > > and get better stock picks. Random Walk theory has taught us
> > > that. "But Gann is so complicated, it must work." Yeah, it
does,
> and
> > > it slices, dices and cuts julian fries too.
> > >
> > > You are right that a person doesn't have to know how to
program a
> > > thing in MS to make money. None of the sytems I use require
one
> line
> > > of code--not one. I've automated some processes for convience,
but
> > > after testing over 500 indicators and more than 200 experts
> nothing
> > > has beat the simple stuff I use. I'm finishing up the testing
of
> many
> > > formulas from Colby's book and still nothing is performing
better.
> > >
> > > However, I disagree about reading the manual. You don't have
to
> sit
> > > down and read it front to back but you need to learn to use
your
> > > tools. A lot of people won't lift a finger to educate
themselves.
> > > They think it should all be handed to them on a platter. Ariel
> got it
> > > right. If they won't read the manual they have no business
trying
> to
> > > trade for a living. The highest probability is they're going
to
> lose
> > > their capital and it's back to 7-11.
> > >
> > > Some people are lucky in that trading success has nothing to
do
> with
> > > brains. That's been proven over and over, but it does have a
lot
> to
> > > do with laziness. Intellectually lazy people fail at this
> business. I
> > > didn't say IQ was the issue. I said how much you are willing
to
> use
> > > the IQ you have is the issue. I have made suggestions to people
> > > regarding what books to read. They read them, and then I have
to
> > > explain it to them three or four times, they read the book
again,
> I
> > > explain it again, and the next thing you know they're making
> money.
> > > What a surprise! Am I upset I have to repeat my explanations
more
> > > than once. No, because they're doing their part.
> > >
> > > Of course, I recommend the same material to other people who
never
> > > read it, continue to ask the same questions everyday and can't
> > > understand why their capital account is shrinking. I've got a
> couple
> > > of clues.
> > >
> > > Ariel gave some of the best trading advice I've read on here.
It's
> > > too bad more people don't get it.
> > >
> > > Now that being said, I started in TA 30 years ago writing
computer
> > > programs for finance professors who were looking for the
grail.
> They
> > > thought computers were going to do it for them. Then came
complex
> > > geometry, neural nets, chaos theory and fractals. Oh well,
those
> > > moving averages aren't looking for a place to hide. They know
who
> > > will still be around next year.
> > >
> > > You are right also in that some people are trying to predict
the
> > > direction of the smoke. I use the smoke to keep me out of the
> fire. I
> > > can read it well enough to do that. I can also tell where not
to
> > > stand to keep from choking.
> > >
> > > That has made me more money than all of my finance professors
put
> > > together, and that's good enough for me.
> > >
> > > If you can see what's right in front of you, you are one of
the
> few.
> > > I hope you are using that to your advantage. Some people are
too
> lazy
> > > to clean their glasses so they too can see.
> > >
> > > Whatever works! I think that's what you said. Good post.
> > >
> > > JO
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Martin Blain"
> <martin@xxxx>
> > > wrote:
> > > > If I can weigh in again here. Does all the quantifying of
> trading
> > > stocks really pay off?
> > > > I compare it to analyzing a plume of smoke and saying " well
if
> > > this happens then I will do this and if that doesn't work I
will
> bail
> > > out here. The hardest part of this ( and maybe the easiest to a
> > > person smarter than me) is to explain why you cant quantify
> something
> > > that is basically random. Now don't get me wrong I didn't say
you
> > > cant use TA. I just don't believe that you can use the systems
in
> > > MS. All this code and crap is just "something to aspire to"
all
> the
> > > while the information is right in front of you if you can see
> it. So
> > > if you don't need the crap built in than don't waste your time
> > > reading the manual!
> > > > Regards Martin B
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Ariel Devulsky
> > > > To: Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Sent: November 22, 2003 3:10 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Metastockusers] Re: Group benefits and
Whining
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Why not send the rules list or create rules and send to new
> > > menbers?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Read The Fuckinī Manual!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: manohohman
> > > > To: Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 3:40 PM
> > > > Subject: [Metastockusers] Re: Group benefits and Whining
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kevin, I agree completely with Martin's post. On this
site
> and
> > > the
> > > > other Metastock site there are too many people who won't
> bother
> > > to
> > > > look in the manual or use the help screen and it's not
> because
> > > they
> > > > don't think to do it, they just don't want to "think"
> period.
> > > >
> > > > In addition, a lot of people think everything should
> be "free"
> > > and if
> > > > it's not, they'll try to find some place to steal it
from.
> > > These
> > > > people want to be "traders". If you're willing to lose
your
> > > capital
> > > > account but spend nothing on your education, you're not a
> > > trader,
> > > > you're a moron.
> > > >
> > > > I post on this and the other site constantly. I get a
lot of
> > > email
> > > > wanting questions answered, or my entire trading system,
or
> > > help
> > > > learning to trade, or emails that are filled with general
> > > insults.
> > > >
> > > > They all want "free" help, but the help isn't free. It
> costs me
> > > a lot
> > > > of time and my time is valuable. Ninety percent of the
> people
> > > who are
> > > > asking me for stuff don't treat my time like it's
valuable.
> In
> > > fact,
> > > > if I tell them in a polite way that I can't help them
learn
> to
> > > trade,
> > > > or I'm not going to give away my systems unless they have
> > > something
> > > > to share, I usually get a terse response implying
something
> > > nasty
> > > > about my character.
> > > >
> > > > Many of the emails I receive act as if they have a right
to
> > > answers
> > > > because this is a MS support group. That's BS. Kevin,
you
> are
> > > right,
> > > > no one has to answer any body's question. I've made the
> mistake
> > > of
> > > > answering some that I should have skipped, and I wound up
> > > paying for
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > I would appreciate it if you would do what I've been
doing.
> > > Start
> > > > posting all kinds of references, indicator code, systems
> code,
> > > > answering people's programming problems, etc. and then
> you'll
> > > get to
> > > > see what I've been seeing everyday, and you won't like
it.
> > > >
> > > > Martin may not have been eloquent, but he was right.
> Newbie's
> > > get
> > > > pissed off when I, or someone else, tell them to read the
> > > manual or
> > > > use the help screen. They fire back a nasty email saying
> they
> > > tried
> > > > to read the manual but what they want to know is not in
> there.
> > > Huffy,
> > > > huffy, huffy. In addition to my career, I spent 30 years
as
> a
> > > college
> > > > professor at 4 different universities. In the last ten
> years,
> > > I've
> > > > seen the same thing. Students don't want to bother
reading
> > > anything,
> > > > or researching to find their own answers. I'm suppose to
> tell
> > > them
> > > > everything they need to know, and I should never ask
them a
> > > question
> > > > on an exam I didn't tell them the answer too! Well
here's an
> > > answer.
> > > > Get off your lazy ass, put your brain in gear, or learn
to
> > > say "Would
> > > > you like that supersized," sir?
> > > >
> > > > I wonder how these people think I learned to program, or
> where
> > > all
> > > > the references I post come from. I guess I just woke up
with
> > > them on
> > > > my pillow. I worked 17 hours yesterday. Six hours
trading,
> and
> > > eleven
> > > > hours testing equations I found in reference books. In a
few
> > > days
> > > > I'll get tons of requests wanting me to tell them what I
> found
> > > so
> > > > they don't have to spend 11 hours themselves. Some of
what I
> > > learned
> > > > I might share, and some of it I won't. Whatever I choose
to
> > > share is
> > > > a gift.
> > > >
> > > > Sure there are some great people on here, and on the
other
> > > board. I
> > > > correspond with some of them. We exchange ideas, code and
> > > systems. WE
> > > > EXCHANGE!
> > > >
> > > > Everytime I've asked anyone on here to share their
systems
> or
> > > code,
> > > > even if it isn't good, they decline. Surprise, surprise,
> > > surprise.
> > > > Their work is too important, or secret, to share.
> > > >
> > > > I've done a number of postings lately trying to elevate
the
> > > amount of
> > > > discussion, references, sharing, and exchanging that
goes
> on on
> > > this
> > > > board, and the other one, so the board is not merely a
forum
> > > for
> > > > people who can't read.
> > > >
> > > > There has been a slight increase in the amount of
sharing
> but
> > > it's
> > > > not nearly where it should be.
> > > >
> > > > I'll keep posting as long as I feel I have the time and
> energy,
> > > but
> > > > I'm also going to speak my mind about some of the
garbage
> that
> > > goes
> > > > on. It mostly falls on deaf years I know, but that's okay
> > > because
> > > > I've given away enough that once in-a-while I get to
whine.
> > > >
> > > > JO
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Kevin
> <kevin_barry@xxxx>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Hello Martin,
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that your posting is a little unfair. I am not
> sure
> > > if you
> > > > are
> > > > > referring to any group members in particular but I
must
> say
> > > that no
> > > > > postings on this forum in recent times have evoked
> anything
> > > close
> > > > to a
> > > > > similar reaction in me. Sure, there are often questions
> > > posted that
> > > > could
> > > > > be answered by looking in the respective manual but,
in my
> > > > experience, not
> > > > > everybody automatically thinks of doing that. Indeed,
the
> > > > apparently
> > > > > obvious questions are sometimes quite thought-
provoking
> and,
> > > > personally
> > > > > speaking, I have got answers here to questions that I
> would
> > > never
> > > > even have
> > > > > thought of asking.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no obligation to respond to any posting and
the
> > > nature of
> > > > the post
> > > > > is more often than not pretty obvious immediately. So,
if
> it
> > > is
> > > > going to be
> > > > > an irritation to you, why not just delete it
immediately?
> > > What
> > > > impresses me
> > > > > are the regular contributors who are quick to respond
to
> > > pleas for
> > > > help,
> > > > > however simple or stupid, and are extremely generous
with
> > > their
> > > > knowledge
> > > > > and experience. Without the questions, the rest of us
> might
> > > never
> > > > get to
> > > > > hear these guys speak.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also get the impression that you are a little
> contemptuous
> > > of
> > > > people who
> > > > > seem to be asking for something for nothing.
Personally,
> I am
> > > in
> > > > complete
> > > > > agreement with what I think that you are saying, i.e.
if
> one
> > > uses
> > > > tools in
> > > > > order to make money then those tools should be paid
for.
> > > However,
> > > > you may
> > > > > not realise that, in addition to people who trade
> > > professionally or
> > > > > part-time, there are many people who are attracted to
the
> > > idea of
> > > > trading
> > > > > and enjoy associating with the trading community,
hobby-
> > > traders if
> > > > you
> > > > > like, who do not actually trade. There is a chap who
> attends
> > > my
> > > > investment
> > > > > club meetings who has an in-depth knowledge of the
market
> and
> > > is an
> > > > expert
> > > > > in several trading techniques. He occasionally
lectures on
> > > various
> > > > subjects
> > > > > and he is actually pretty good at it. He has never
placed
> a
> > > trade
> > > > in his
> > > > > life. Do I begrudge him collecting a bit of free
software,
> > > > downloading free
> > > > > end-of-day prices and playing around with them in his
> spare
> > > time?
> > > > No. As
> > > > > far as I can see, people like him are doing none of us
any
> > > harm
> > > > whatsoever.
> > > > >
> > > > > A forum such as this needs lots of input at all levels
in
> > > order to
> > > > stay
> > > > > alive. I sincerely hope that nobody is ever reluctant
to
> post
> > > > because they
> > > > > think that their contribution may not be worthy.
> > > > >
> > > > > Viva la difference.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Kevin
> > > > >
> > > > > At 12:29 22/11/2003 +0000, you wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Hi folks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >in my opinion to share is just fair. Everyone that is
a
> > > member of
> > > > > >this group should try to contribute to the benefits
of
> the
> > > whole
> > > > > >group, not just ask (simple and stupid stuff) and
take.
> This
> > > doen't
> > > > > >not mean that a newbie shouldn't post his or her
> questions.
> > > But
> > > > what
> > > > > >about first trying to solve the problem by yourself
and
> show
> > > the
> > > > > >group the results of this effort and then ask the
> question.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >But now FREE - for all of you not wanting to share
and
> just
> > > begging
> > > > > >for 'free stuff':
> > > > > >
> > > > > >John Slauson from Adaptick is giving away for free
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Adaptick Trend Index
> > > > > >Adaptick Pivot Volume indicator
> > > > > >Adaptick Volume Acceleration Index
> > > > > >17-page Adobe PDF Manual for reference and
intepretation
> > > > > >
> > > > > >http://www.adaptick.com/3-pack/index.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > >pretty useful and - did I mention it - free (you dont
> have to
> > > > > >contribute ;-)!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Martin
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > >Metastockusers-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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