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Re:
Some of Gann's work is to square the High, Square the low, Square the
range, Square from 0.
<FONT face="Courier New" color=#000000
size=2>
<FONT face="Courier New"
color=#000000 size=2>Not only must understand each of these: you must also
understand when to apply them in the market. It is fascinating work, but
to me far to complex too use practically on the broader market. Selective,
limited stocks - no worries.
<FONT face="Courier New"
color=#000000 size=2>
<FONT face="Courier New"
color=#000000 size=2>Bill McLaren's Gann work is exceptional and worth reviewing
for those interested. He is the first guy to convincingly make it work for
me (not that I use it, but I can see how it would fit within my trading
plan).
<FONT face="Courier New"
color=#000000 size=2>
<FONT face="Courier New"
color=#000000 size=2>Cheers,
<FONT face="Courier New"
color=#000000 size=2>
<FONT face="Courier New"
color=#000000 size=2>Jono
<FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----From: Henry Z Kaczmarczyk
[mailto:henry1224@xxxxxxxxx]Sent: Monday, 24 November 2003 6:20
AMTo: Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject:
[Metastockusers] Re: The Gann ThingThere are
several software programs that are based on Gann,Dynamic Trader 4,
Advanced Get,MurreyMath just to name a few.Metastock has the Gann
Grid, Gann Fans, but I'll bet that nobody on this forum even uses them,
and if they do they probablly missuse them.Some of Gann's work is
to square the High, Square the low, Square the range, Square from
0.Henry--- In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "manohohman"
<kelols@xxxx> wrote:> Hi Martin,> > I avoid the
Gann debates because the people who like him defend him >
vigorously. When I was looking at Gann's work, I read some history on
> Gann to see where his work came from. Gann was fascinated with the
> relationship between price and time. He liked geometry also so he
> applied geometry to his study of time and price. The problem was
he > also liked astrology and traveled the world studying it too.
Some of > his favorite indicators came right out of Indian (country
India) > astrology tools. He also used astrology in his study of the
market > cycles.> > Gann was reputed to be a legendary
trader, yet there is little > historial evidence he did much trading.
Other famous traders living > in the same era have documented
evidence of their trading histories. > Gann was the "infomercial
king" of his time. He sold educational > materials and did seminars on
his trading methods. He charged $5000 a > person to attend. Most
market historians believe it was the selling > of his trading
methods that made him his money. Jesse Livermore was > the most
successful trader in that era and he didn't use anything as >
complex as Gann. > > The last problem I have with Gann is no one
has yet to prove that > over any long period of time his methods out
perform buy and hold. > Here's a pitch from Lambert-Gann publishing. If
this were true do you > think that the major banks on Wall Street
would use anything else! I > have never found one bank using Gann.
Nor have I found anyone who can > show that they are making an
astounding 90% successful trades using > Gann. Everytime someone
fails to make money with Gann, they are told > it's because they
don't know how to use his methods properly. From > what I've been able
to find out to this point I have concluded that > Gann was the only
one who could use Gann methods successfully. You > will notice the
advertisement doesn't say you will have 90% > successful trades. In
fact, it doesn't even say you will make money.> > "W.D. Gann
was one of the greatest traders of all time. His ability > to call
market turns was, and still is, legendary. His profitable > trades in
the commodity and stock markets was an astounding 90%+! > > His
trading profits are estimated to be a staggering $50 million > dollars
during the first half of the 20th century. Traders who have >
studied his techniques have found great success in markets all over
> the world."> > That being said, I am a proponent of
whatever works. If you can make > money with Gann, who cares if he
heard voices and talked to himself. > > Good Trading
Martin> > JO> > > --- In
Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Martin Blain" <martin@xxxx>
> wrote:> > JO> > You said it much more eloquently
than me. Thank you.> > Just to stick up for Gann a little and to
continue the smoke > analogy. Gann> > was quite a
mathematician. The star alignment thing may have been > smoke
and> > mirrors!> > Regards Martin> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From:
"manohohman" <kelols@xxxx>> > To:
<Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> > Sent: November 22, 2003
11:11 PM> > Subject: [Metastockusers] Re: Martin B and Ariel on
Whinning> > > > > > > Your post is
interesting and it's a view point I hear often. I > have> >
> traded stocks using both fundemental analysis and technical >
analysis.> > > I find a combination is the best way to make money
in the long > run.> > >> > > The approach a
successful trader takes is to design his trading> > > business
around his personality and emotinoal make-up as opposed >
to> > > designing it based on what's most profitable or the
"best"> > > indicators. I see that post on this site all the time
usually in > form> > > of the lame question. "Let's do
a poll and find out what > everybody's> > > favorite
indicators are". That's a ridiculous question. It's like> > >
trying to decide what color to wear based on everybody else's> >
> favorite color.> > >> > > I have not met a
single person who could not learn to improve the> > > return
on their investments by using simple moving averages so > they>
> > know when to buy and when to sell. That's TA.> >
>> > > The thing that's really interesting is that there are
very few> > > systems that beat moving averages. According to
Robert Colby the> > > author of The Encyclopedia of Technical
Market Indicators, the > bible> > > of backtesting, a
simple moving average system out performed by > and> >
> hold since 1928 by 51,712,052% Yeah, it's 52 million percent >
better> > > than buy and hold. That's 10s of billions more in
profit with a> > > capital B. Of course that doesn't include
taxes, commissions and > rake> > > off by crooks.
After that, you would only have $1.98 left, but > hey,> >
> it's money.> > >> > > Too many people like to
make things complex. Just look at Gann> > > theory. Gann based
his work on Indian astrology and star > alignment,> > >
yet there are thousands of people who think trading with Gann >
gives> > > them an edge. Well, you could call Miss Cleo on the
psychic > hotline> > > and get better stock picks. Random
Walk theory has taught us> > > that. "But Gann is so complicated,
it must work." Yeah, it does, > and> > > it slices,
dices and cuts julian fries too.> > >> > > You are
right that a person doesn't have to know how to program a> >
> thing in MS to make money. None of the sytems I use require one
> line> > > of code--not one. I've automated some
processes for convience, but> > > after testing over 500
indicators and more than 200 experts > nothing> > > has
beat the simple stuff I use. I'm finishing up the testing of >
many> > > formulas from Colby's book and still nothing is
performing better.> > >> > > However, I disagree
about reading the manual. You don't have to > sit> > >
down and read it front to back but you need to learn to use your>
> > tools. A lot of people won't lift a finger to educate
themselves.> > > They think it should all be handed to them
on a platter. Ariel > got it> > > right. If they won't
read the manual they have no business trying > to> > >
trade for a living. The highest probability is they're going to >
lose> > > their capital and it's back to 7-11.> >
>> > > Some people are lucky in that trading success has
nothing to do > with> > > brains. That's been proven
over and over, but it does have a lot > to> > > do
with laziness. Intellectually lazy people fail at this > business.
I> > > didn't say IQ was the issue. I said how much you are
willing to > use> > > the IQ you have is the issue. I
have made suggestions to people> > > regarding what books to
read. They read them, and then I have to> > > explain it to
them three or four times, they read the book again, > I>
> > explain it again, and the next thing you know they're making
> money.> > > What a surprise! Am I upset I have to repeat
my explanations more> > > than once. No, because they're
doing their part.> > >> > > Of course, I recommend
the same material to other people who never> > > read it,
continue to ask the same questions everyday and can't> > >
understand why their capital account is shrinking. I've got a >
couple> > > of clues.> > >> > > Ariel
gave some of the best trading advice I've read on here. It's> >
> too bad more people don't get it.> > >> > > Now
that being said, I started in TA 30 years ago writing computer>
> > programs for finance professors who were looking for the grail.
> They> > > thought computers were going to do it for
them. Then came complex> > > geometry, neural nets, chaos
theory and fractals. Oh well, those> > > moving averages
aren't looking for a place to hide. They know who> > > will
still be around next year.> > >> > > You are right
also in that some people are trying to predict the> > >
direction of the smoke. I use the smoke to keep me out of the > fire.
I> > > can read it well enough to do that. I can also tell where
not to> > > stand to keep from choking.> >
>> > > That has made me more money than all of my finance
professors put> > > together, and that's good enough for
me.> > >> > > If you can see what's right in front
of you, you are one of the > few.> > > I hope you are
using that to your advantage. Some people are too > lazy>
> > to clean their glasses so they too can see.> >
>> > > Whatever works! I think that's what you said. Good
post.> > >> > > JO> > >> >
>> > > --- In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Martin Blain"
> <martin@xxxx>> > > wrote:> > > >
If I can weigh in again here. Does all the quantifying of >
trading> > > stocks really pay off?> > > > I
compare it to analyzing a plume of smoke and saying " well if> >
> this happens then I will do this and if that doesn't work I will
> bail> > > out here. The hardest part of this ( and maybe
the easiest to a> > > person smarter than me) is to explain why
you cant quantify > something> > > that is basically
random. Now don't get me wrong I didn't say you> > > cant use
TA. I just don't believe that you can use the systems in> > >
MS. All this code and crap is just "something to aspire to" all
> the> > > while the information is right in front of you
if you can see > it. So> > > if you don't need the
crap built in than don't waste your time> > > reading the
manual!> > > > Regards Martin B> > > >>
> > >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Ariel Devulsky> > >
> To: Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >
> Sent: November 22, 2003 3:10 PM> > >
> Subject: Re: [Metastockusers] Re: Group benefits and
Whining> > > >> > > >> > >
> Why not send the rules list or create rules and send to
new> > > menbers?> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > Read The
Fuckin´ Manual!> > > >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > > > -----
Original Message ----- > > > > From:
manohohman> > > > To:
Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > >
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 3:40 PM> > >
> Subject: [Metastockusers] Re: Group benefits and
Whining> > > >> > > >> > >
> Kevin, I agree completely with Martin's post. On
this site > and> > > the> > >
> other Metastock site there are too many people
who won't > bother> > > to> > >
> look in the manual or use the help screen and
it's not > because> > > they> > >
> don't think to do it, they just don't want to
"think" > period.> > > >> > >
> In addition, a lot of people think everything
should > be "free"> > > and if> > >
> it's not, they'll try to find some place to steal
it from.> > > These> > >
> people want to be "traders". If you're willing to
lose your> > > capital> > >
> account but spend nothing on your education,
you're not a> > > trader,> > >
> you're a moron.> > > >>
> > > I post on this and the other site
constantly. I get a lot of> > > email> > >
> wanting questions answered, or my entire trading
system, or> > > help> > >
> learning to trade, or emails that are filled with
general> > > insults.> > > >> > >
> They all want "free" help, but the help isn't
free. It > costs me> > > a lot> > >
> of time and my time is valuable. Ninety percent
of the > people> > > who are> > >
> asking me for stuff don't treat my time like it's
valuable. > In> > > fact,> > >
> if I tell them in a polite way that I can't help
them learn > to> > > trade,> > >
> or I'm not going to give away my systems unless
they have> > > something> > >
> to share, I usually get a terse response implying
something> > > nasty> > >
> about my character.> > >
>> > > > Many of the emails I
receive act as if they have a right to> > > answers>
> > > because this is a MS support group.
That's BS. Kevin, you > are> > > right,> >
> > no one has to answer any body's question.
I've made the > mistake> > > of> > >
> answering some that I should have skipped, and I
wound up> > > paying for> > >
> it.> > > >> > >
> I would appreciate it if you would do what I've
been doing.> > > Start> > >
> posting all kinds of references, indicator code,
systems > code,> > > >
answering people's programming problems, etc. and then > you'll>
> > get to> > > > see what I've
been seeing everyday, and you won't like it.> > >
>> > > > Martin may not have been
eloquent, but he was right. > Newbie's> > > get>
> > > pissed off when I, or someone else,
tell them to read the> > > manual or> > >
> use the help screen. They fire back a nasty email
saying > they> > > tried> > >
> to read the manual but what they want to know is
not in > there.> > > Huffy,> > >
> huffy, huffy. In addition to my career, I spent
30 years as > a> > > college> > >
> professor at 4 different universities. In the
last ten > years,> > > I've> > >
> seen the same thing. Students don't want to
bother reading> > > anything,> > >
> or researching to find their own answers. I'm
suppose to > tell> > > them> > >
> everything they need to know, and I should never
ask them a> > > question> > >
> on an exam I didn't tell them the answer too!
Well here's an> > > answer.> > >
> Get off your lazy ass, put your brain in gear, or
learn to> > > say "Would> > >
> you like that supersized," sir?> > >
>> > > > I wonder how these people
think I learned to program, or > where> > > all>
> > > the references I post come from. I
guess I just woke up with> > > them on> > >
> my pillow. I worked 17 hours yesterday. Six hours
trading, > and> > > eleven> > >
> hours testing equations I found in reference
books. In a few> > > days> > >
> I'll get tons of requests wanting me to tell them
what I > found> > > so> > >
> they don't have to spend 11 hours themselves.
Some of what I> > > learned> > >
> I might share, and some of it I won't. Whatever I
choose to> > > share is> > >
> a gift.> > > >> > >
> Sure there are some great people on here, and on
the other> > > board. I> > >
> correspond with some of them. We exchange ideas,
code and> > > systems. WE> > >
> EXCHANGE!> > > >> >
> > Everytime I've asked anyone on here to share
their systems > or> > > code,> > >
> even if it isn't good, they decline. Surprise,
surprise,> > > surprise.> > >
> Their work is too important, or secret, to
share.> > > >> > > >
I've done a number of postings lately trying to elevate the> >
> amount of> > > > discussion,
references, sharing, and exchanging that goes > on on> >
> this> > > > board, and the other
one, so the board is not merely a forum> > > for> >
> > people who can't read.> > >
>> > > > There has been a slight
increase in the amount of sharing > but> > >
it's> > > > not nearly where it should
be.> > > >> > > > I'll
keep posting as long as I feel I have the time and > energy,>
> > but> > > > I'm also going to
speak my mind about some of the garbage > that> > >
goes> > > > on. It mostly falls on
deaf years I know, but that's okay> > > because> > >
> I've given away enough that once in-a-while I get
to whine.> > > >> > >
> JO> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > ---
In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Kevin >
<kevin_barry@xxxx>> > > wrote:> > >
> > Hello Martin,> > >
> >> > >
> > I think that your posting is a little
unfair. I am not > sure> > > if you> > >
> are> > >
> > referring to any group members in particular
but I must > say> > > that no> > >
> > postings on this forum in recent times have
evoked > anything> > > close> > >
> to a> > >
> > similar reaction in me. Sure, there are
often questions> > > posted that> > >
> could> > >
> > be answered by looking in the respective
manual but, in my> > > >
experience, not> > > > > everybody
automatically thinks of doing that. Indeed, the> > >
> apparently> > >
> > obvious questions are sometimes quite
thought-provoking > and,> > >
> personally> > >
> > speaking, I have got answers here to
questions that I > would> > > never> > >
> even have> > >
> > thought of asking.> > >
> >> > >
> > There is no obligation to respond to any
posting and the> > > nature of> > >
> the post> > >
> > is more often than not pretty obvious
immediately. So, if > it> > > is> > >
> going to be> > >
> > an irritation to you, why not just delete it
immediately?> > > What> > >
> impresses me> > >
> > are the regular contributors who are quick
to respond to> > > pleas for> > >
> help,> > >
> > however simple or stupid, and are extremely
generous with> > > their> > >
> knowledge> > >
> > and experience. Without the questions, the
rest of us > might> > > never> > >
> get to> > >
> > hear these guys speak.> > >
> >> > >
> > I also get the impression that you are a
little > contemptuous> > > of> > >
> people who> > >
> > seem to be asking for something for nothing.
Personally, > I am> > > in> > >
> complete> > >
> > agreement with what I think that you are
saying, i.e. if > one> > > uses> > >
> tools in> > >
> > order to make money then those tools should
be paid for.> > > However,> > >
> you may> > >
> > not realise that, in addition to people who
trade> > > professionally or> > >
> > part-time, there are many people who are
attracted to the> > > idea of> > >
> trading> > >
> > and enjoy associating with the trading
community, hobby-> > > traders if> > >
> you> > >
> > like, who do not actually trade. There is a
chap who > attends> > > my> > >
> investment> > >
> > club meetings who has an in-depth knowledge
of the market > and> > > is an> > >
> expert> > >
> > in several trading techniques. He
occasionally lectures on> > > various> > >
> subjects> > >
> > and he is actually pretty good at it. He has
never placed > a> > > trade> > >
> in his> > >
> > life. Do I begrudge him collecting a bit of
free software,> > > > downloading
free> > > > > end-of-day prices and
playing around with them in his > spare> > > time?>
> > > No. As> > >
> > far as I can see, people like him are doing
none of us any> > > harm> > >
> whatsoever.> > >
> >> > >
> > A forum such as this needs lots of input at
all levels in> > > order to> > >
> stay> > >
> > alive. I sincerely hope that nobody is ever
reluctant to > post> > > >
because they> > > > > think that
their contribution may not be worthy.> > >
> >> > >
> > Viva la difference.> > >
> >> > >
> > Regards,> > >
> > Kevin> > >
> >> > >
> > At 12:29 22/11/2003 +0000, you
wrote:> > > > > >> >
> > > >Hi folks,> > >
> > >> > >
> > >in my opinion to share is just fair.
Everyone that is a> > > member of> > >
> > >this group should try to contribute to
the benefits of > the> > > whole> > >
> > >group, not just ask (simple and stupid
stuff) and take. > This> > > doen't> > >
> > >not mean that a newbie shouldn't post
his or her > questions.> > > But> > >
> what> > >
> > >about first trying to solve the problem
by yourself and > show> > > the> > >
> > >group the results of this effort and
then ask the > question.> > > >
> >> > > > > >But now FREE
- for all of you not wanting to share and > just> > >
begging> > > > > >for 'free
stuff':> > > > > >> >
> > > >John Slauson from Adaptick is
giving away for free> > > > >
>> > > > > >Adaptick Trend
Index> > > > > >Adaptick Pivot
Volume indicator> > > > >
>Adaptick Volume Acceleration Index> > >
> > >17-page Adobe PDF Manual for reference
and intepretation> > > > >
>> > > > > ><A
href="">http://www.adaptick.com/3-pack/index.html>
> > > > >> > >
> > >pretty useful and - did I mention it -
free (you dont > have to> > > >
> >contribute ;-)!> > > > >
>> > > > > >Martin>
> > > > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an
email to:> > > > >
>Metastockusers-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxx> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject
to> > > > <A
href="">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> > >> > > >> > > >> > >
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
to:> > > >
Metastockusers-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxx> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > >
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
Yahoo! Terms of> > > Service.> > > >>
> > >> > >
> Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor> > > >> > > >> > >
>> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send
an email to:> > > >
Metastockusers-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxx> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > > > Your use
of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of> > >
Service.> > >> > >> > >> >
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:> > >
Metastockusers-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxx> > >> >
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