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[amibroker] Re: Help Manual



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Hi Fred,

No hard feelings mate.

Overall I think you mean well... you certainly have shared a lot and 
have a good community spirit.

Pity about your inexplicable tendency to get cranky but I overlooked 
that many times because of your outstanding community effort.

Yoy don't really know me and vice versa.

If I wanted to, I could make a far more incisive critique of you, 
than what can make of me, but I don't do things like that because I 
am not an ultra-rationalist.... I have a bit more depth to me... I 
take into account the touchy feely things I know about you and the 
long term damage it would do to you if I hauled off and smashed you 
one back.


Also... the only times we did go 'tete a tete' for a few seconds I 
actually out thought you but you didn't even notice.

You can see now, that I was ahead of Phsst - the only one who was 
keeping up with me was Tomasz (or others in the background who 
remained silent).

Definitely you and Phsst weren't even in the play - you were both 
just jumping up and down on the sideline like dancing girls - 
entertaining to some but not what we were there for.

But of course... you are probably in denial about that.


brian_z


--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Fred Tonetti <ftonetti@xxx> wrote:
>
> Understand that the comments below are from someone who has done 
programming
> since long before there were personal computers and been an trader /
> investor for almost as long .
> 
>  
> 
> IMHO there is from many peoples perspective a deeper issue here .
> 
>  
> 
> That issue is that by definition there are more people who are 
traders /
> investors looking for a platform to use then there are programmers 
who are
> looking for a platform.
> 
>  
> 
> Therefore the more user friendly the documentation AND the platform 
are to
> use the wider the appeal is . 
> 
>  
> 
> As an example the typical trader will have many ideas about things 
that
> he/she wants to do.  If doing what seems simple to them from a 
conceptual
> perspective is difficult to do from a practical perspective i.e. 
requires
> something more than simple straight forward AFL and some fill in 
the blanks
> parameters they only have a couple of choices . struggle with it 
for ever,
> hire someone or find another platform . For example while of course 
very
> powerful, implementations like that of scaling in / out and the 
custom
> backtester will give most people without previous programming 
experience the
> willies.
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
On Behalf
> Of sidhartha70
> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 1:55 PM
> To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [amibroker] Re: Help Manual
> 
>  
> 
> Tom,
> 
> Well, Howard is apprently writing another book. A beginners book.
> Which is great. He could (should to save the planet) sell it in the
> form of an e-Book.
> 
> Bottom line is, learning AFL and what it can do, is exactly the same
> as learning any other language (e.g. C#). I don't think its too much
> to ask to have the same level & quality of available documentation 
in
> order to complete the task.
> 
> If you expect people to learn a proprietary language, therefore 
tying
> them to your product, you've got to supply the correct information, 
in
> the correct format, to help people get where they're going. Surely?
> 
> Or am I off the reservation here...? ;-)
> 
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com> 
ps.com,
> <professor@> wrote:
> >
> > To have a manual that is complete and current would take a lot of
> time and effort not only to write the manual, but to also keep it
> current. I would suggest that if someone wants to take the trouble 
to
> write and update the manual, they could have a pay site with the
> manual on it. They could charge a nominal annual membership fee. 
Then
> the members could have access to the manual all year and the writer 
or
> writers would have a least received some compensation for their 
effort. 
> > 
> > I realize that this would not be a big money making effort, but it
> would be helpful to the members and provide some compensation to the
> writer. It could even be presentated as an ebook which could be
> downloaded. The members would be able to get an up dated ebook as
> changes, corrections, and additions are added.
> > 
> > I think that if the annual membership was reasonable, enough 
people
> would subsribe to make it feasilbe. I would be glad to provide help
> with a web site and producing the ebook.
> > 
> > Just my humble suggestion,
> > Tom
> > 
> > I
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: brian_z111 
> > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com> 
ps.com 
> > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 8:13 AM
> > Subject: [amibroker] Re: Help Manual
> > 
> > 
> > Howard hasn't posted for a while.
> > 
> > We can't presume... he is a volunteer also and doesn't make much 
> > money out of his books... unless AB is paying?
> > 
> > It comes down to Tomasz.
> > Hopefully Herman is talking to Tomasz.
> > Herman is very good in that role.
> > 
> > Remember that Herman, Tomasz and I have worked together before.
> > 
> > We know each other quite well, in that regard e.g they know I am 
a 
> > bit grumpy to work with and Herman knows the way I like to 
work...I 
> > always wanted to have an open format.... there was support for a 
Wiki 
> > Help Manual at the ATP.... in the workforce I found out that 
people 
> > can be trusted... if you trust them they won't let you down.
> > 
> > I used to post my files on the company intranet, without any 
> > protection, and no one ever did them any harm.
> > 
> > We should have learnt the lessons from the UKB and now we need to 
> > move on to markII - I hope it wasn't all for nothing - we are so 
> > close.
> > 
> > It would be a shame to waste all of it.
> > 
> > brian_z
> > 
> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com> 
ps.com,
> "lou" <loulh@> wrote:
> > >
> > > This is one post I strongly agree with. Perhaps Howard should 
be 
> > brought 
> > > into the discussion on how to help finance a new book. Perhaps 
a 
> > guaranteed 
> > > number of sales or whatever.
> > > 
> > > PS - The many many good ideas raise hope that this time a 
solution 
> > will 
> > > indeed be found.
> > > 
> > > lou howard
> > > =====================================================
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "sidhartha70" <sidhartha70@>
> > > To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com> 
ps.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 2:57 AM
> > > Subject: [amibroker] Re: Help Manual
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Brian is right that the Help manual is incomplete and 
inadequate.
> > > >
> > > > I don't buy the argument that "we shouldn't expect it to be 
> > complete
> > > > because AmiBroker is cheap".
> > > >
> > > > I know it's just TJ and Marcin, but that's TJ's choice. I've 
> > stated
> > > > before, and I'll state again, I would happily pay $500 for 
> > AmiBroker
> > > > IF it had great on-line help manuals. IF it had something 
along 
> > the
> > > > lines of a decent beginners, intermediate and advanced users 
> > guide.
> > > > And I'm sure new incremental users would come on board as 
> > AmiBroker
> > > > becomes more 'accessbile' to the masses.
> > > >
> > > > I took the plunge with AmiBroker, and there is absolutely no 
> > doubting
> > > > it's a fine product.
> > > >
> > > > The users of AmiBroker deserve to get the same support as 
they 
> > would
> > > > if they chose to purchase one of the C# based alternatives - 
> > namely
> > > > Ninja, RightEdge or OpenQuant etc. IF they have to pay more 
for 
> > that
> > > > support, then so be it... TJ can hire someone to work solely 
on 
> > new
> > > > user guides for the next 6 months. Shouldn't cost too much.
> > > >
> > > > Let's pretend that Howard produces a 'beginners' book for 
> > AmiBroker,
> > > > then another one for more advanced users, say focusing on the 
> > custom
> > > > backtester... suddenly we've got three books for AmiBroker 
coming 
> > in
> > > > at $50 each... that's $150.
> > > >
> > > > Personally I'd be happy with either solution. A Howard 
provided
> > > > alternative that costs $150, or an in-house AmiBRoker one 
that 
> > adds
> > > > $150 to AB price.
> > > >
> > > > But let's at least have one of the two alternatives.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com>
> ps.com, "Steve Dugas" <sjdugas@> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Jeez Brian, even TJ admits that everything is not perfect, 
but 
> > there
> > > > are
> > > >> only 24 hours in a day and how much harder do you think he 
can 
> > work?
> > > > He is
> > > >> human like the rest of us, if you spot an error or ommision, 
just
> > > > report it
> > > >> so he can fix it.
> > > >>
> > > >> Steve
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > >> From: "brian_z111" <brian_z111@>
> > > >> To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com> ps.com>
> > > >> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 7:08 PM
> > > >> Subject: [amibroker] Help Manual
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > There are far too many Help Manual questions posted in 
this 
> > forum.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > This takes up our valueable time answering questions that 
> > should have
> > > >> > been answered by AmiBroker.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > In fact they waste far more time than OT posts.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Our precious time would be far better spent answering more 
> > interesting
> > > >> > questions.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Some of the features in AB aren't explained in the manual, 
> > some things
> > > >> > are out of date and sometimes the explanations are a bit 
> > cryptic.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Example:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Prettify was added to the Formula Editor in beta version 
5.04
> > > >> > - included in devlog under version 5.05 Feb08
> > > >> > - official release v5.10 in June08 which includes manual 
5.10
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Ami website PDF manual is still version 5.00
> > > >> >
> > > >> > - Search PDF for prettify == nothing
> > > >> > - Search AB manual version 5.1 for prettify == nothing
> > > >> > - Use AB site search engine == nothing
> > > >> > - Google amibroker.com == 3 hits from devlog
> > > >> > - devlog records release but has no info about it and no
> > > > explanation in
> > > >> > the read me
> > > >> > - searched KB == nothing
> > > >> > - searched UKB == nothing
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The screenshot of the FE edit dropdown menu, in the Help 
> > Manual is out
> > > >> > of date (at least it looks different to my version 5.10)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > http://www.amibroke 
<http://www.amibroker.com/guide/w_afledit.html>
> r.com/guide/w_afledit.html
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The Devlog just says that the Prettify function was 
added ...
> > > > looked in
> > > >> > the AFL function list and couldn't find anything... is it a
> > > > function or
> > > >> > a function()?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > New features should be explained in the official help 
manual 
> > that
> > > > comes
> > > >> > out immediately after the beta inclusion.
> > > >> > We should not have to search elsewhere but even if we do 
we, 
> > in this
> > > >> > case, we still find nothing.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > It shouldn't be up to volunteers to explain help manual 
items 
> > in this
> > > >> > forum, or the UKB, or anywhere else.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > It saves AB some effort if they don't have to keep the 
manual 
> > up to
> > > >> > date but the effort is transferred to the volunteers, who 
have 
> > to
> > > >> > answer it scores of times, instead of AB answering it once.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > If we all took the rationalist approach, that some people 
are
> > > >> > advocating e.g. "users should have skills or lower their 
> > sights or pay
> > > >> > Graham", and charged AB for the time we spend providing AB 
> > support
> > > > then
> > > >> > the program would cost thousands of dollars and wouldn't 
look 
> > so
> > > > cheap,
> > > >> > up against other software, afterall
> > > >> >
> > > >> > brian_z
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > ------------------------------------
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Please note that this group is for discussion between 
users 
> > only.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail 
directly to
> > > >> > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
> > > >> >
> > > >> > For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check 
> > DEVLOG:
> > > >> > http://www.amibroke <http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/>
> r.com/devlog/
> > > >> >
> > > >> > For other support material please check also:
> > > >> > http://www.amibroke <http://www.amibroker.com/support.html>
> r.com/support.html
> > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Please note that this group is for discussion between users 
only.
> > > >
> > > > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly 
to
> > > > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
> > > >
> > > > For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check 
DEVLOG:
> > > > http://www.amibroke <http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/> 
r.com/devlog/
> > > >
> > > > For other support material please check also:
> > > > http://www.amibroke <http://www.amibroker.com/support.html>
> r.com/support.html
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
>  
> 
> 
>   _____  
> 
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>



------------------------------------

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For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG:
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For other support material please check also:
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