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Well now that you've said you sell a system - how much is it?
d
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Barry Scarborough
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 2:46 PM
> To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money?
>
> I will let Tom answer this too but I would like to also. Auto trading
> takes the emotion out of trading. If you have nerves of steel,
> believe your system implicitly and act immediately, you can manual
> trade. I just can't do it. And you are not fast enough to catch the
> price when the signal appears, if you are watching the screen ALL the
> time. Then when you don't catch it right away what do you do? Wait
> and miss the trade, right. The AT part makes the trade in a fraction
> of a second after the signal. It has nerves of steel and no emotion.
>
> Then there are too many times I think the market is going to do this
> or that and I start second guessing the system. That is a killer. I
> did not understand that until I had a long sting of awful trades,
> quit trading and read Trading in the Zone but Mark Douglas, required
> reading for the novice as is High Probability Trading by Marcel Link.
> One point Douglas makes, and I can vouch for it, is that when you get
> an idea about what the market will do it skews your thinking and you
> will not see the parts of the chart that tell you to get out or not
> trade. You only see what reinforces your belief system. I made a
> really bad trade and reviewed it with my wife later. She is very good
> at picking stocks, looked at the charts and said, "What the !@#$ did
> you do that for??? Looking back after the emotion was gone I saw what
> I did not see during the heat of the moment, all the other stuff that
> screamed "Not here stupid!" Thinking you know what the market will do
> often does more harm than good.
>
> Your point about futures is true and part of the clue to using them.
> When you are trading, small price moves make it hard for a system to
> make money. People that try to trade a 1 minute chart have to have a
> system that turns on a dime or the bid/ask slippage and commissions
> will eat your lunch. Now if you use an hour chart the bars are larger
> which makes it easier to catch a gain. Another reason is you can
> trade with a lot less money. If you system is good enough to trade
> stocks it is probably good enough for futures.
>
> Don't get the idea that futures are more volatile than stocks. Look
> at QQQQ and switch quickly to ER2, Russell 2000 e-mini. The charts
> are almost identical and the % volatility is about the same. The
> price range is very different. But you need a large price swing to
> make money. The reason people use day or week charts is to get the
> price range they need to make money. You can get that price variance
> in a few hours with futures. So you can make the same money in a
> shorter period of time using them, or lose a lot more if you system
> isn't any good.
>
> Writing an auto trading program is a LOT of trouble, is not easy and
> you will need to dedicate a lot of time to write and test it and test
> it and test it. What the market does in real time will surprise you
> when comparing live trades to static charts or back test results
> where you use ExRem to filter all the signals out and make the charts
> all pretty. That doesn't work in the real world. You will get buy and
> sell conditions you will never see and you have to anticipate and
> manage them. To see what I mean watch a 1 minute chart when the
> market is changing trends, where two MAs are very close and changing
> many times a second.
>
> And things don't happen immediately. When you place a order it takes
> time to get a reply from TWS even when using MKT orders. They may not
> even fill if the market is thin. Then it takes some more time for the
> number of position to change, letting you know you really did trade
> something. Your signal can send hundreds of orders during that time,
> in only a few seconds, and you have to block them. When I was getting
> started I let my system run, simulation account, and when I came back
> an hour later it was long 300 futures contracts and was up 75,000.00.
> Now why can't I make that mistake in my real account? But 300 futures
> contracts? I can't afford that many.
>
> I do sell a system that will trade one security. I use it with
> futures but the auto trading part can be used with anything. Or as a
> basis for your own work. Your system/indicators drive the AT part and
> that has to work well or there is nothing the AT part can do to help.
> Your system is the key ingredient and it has to be a good one, also
> true with manual trading. The AT just places orders and manages the
> status, does the trade blocking, allows you to set profit and loss
> stops and talks to you when a trade is made or status is returned. It
> can also send email if you are away from your system. Tom uses his
> that way. The program is about 13 to 20 pages long depending on the
> level of function and the indicator part is about 1.5 pages. Not the
> one or two page example you see on the User's KB. Be ready to spend
> the time to develop something that is fairly comprehensive or it will
> not work well and you will get disgusted with it. It is a lot of work.
>
> Learning to use it is the easy part. Once you get it working you can
> start it and just watch it make money, or not. Mine was up $1800 the
> other day using 1 futures contract, more than 200% gain, in a day.
> Sadly it doesn't do that all the time. But you can make money using
> AB.
>
> Barry
>
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Louis P." <rockprog80@xxx> wrote:
> >
> > Hi professor,
> >
> > Is there a particular reason why you chose futures over stocks?
> >
> > And why do you use IB automatic trading if trading delay is not a
> problem?
> > It seemed to me that the more volatile a market is, the faster one
> must
> > buy/sell.
> >
> > I'm still thinking about trying IB automatic trading, but it just
> seems like
> > a hell lot of trouble to learn how to use it. Was it easy for you?
> >
> > BTW, you said Barry helped you to write the code. This must
> help! ;-)
> >
> > Louis
> >
> >
> >
> > 2008/7/31 <professor@xxx>
> >
> > > 
> > > Louis,
> > >
> > > Since I only make trades 3 specific times a day, I don't worry
> about the
> > > trade delay. I do use IB automatic trading. I have just finished
> testing it.
> > > I would watch my auto trade and then trade it manually. Now I am
> switching
> > > to auto trading completely. I had Barry write the trading program
> for me. It
> > > seems to work great. However, my trading part may have a problem
> which
> > > prevents a trade occasionally, but it doesn't prevent my trading
> from being
> > > very profitable. I only trade gold futures which as you know as
> very
> > > volitable.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > *From:* Louis P. <rockprog80@xxx>
> > > *To:* amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:48 AM
> > > *Subject:* Re: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money?
> > >
> > > To Tom: Do you use IB automatic trading? Is it possible to test
> such
> > > feature? I find that intraday trade delay is a major reason why
> I don't
> > > make any money. If I was faster I could do better.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Louis
> > >
> > > 2008/7/31 <professor@xxx>
> > >
> > >> > Is it not obvious to you that some people�s personality
> calls for a
> > >> trading system, while others personality calls for a
> discretionary
> > >> approach.
> > >>
> > >> I think that is the best thing that I've read on this thread!
> > >>
> > >> I agree. I have found that I am too emotional to try day trading
> because I
> > >> make emotional decisions. That is why I developed an EOD program
> to trade.
> > >> When that was very profitable, I had my EOD program converted
> to a real
> > >> time program and auto trade. I use a dat/night chart and only
> trade 3 times
> > >> a day. Now I just watch to make sure the auto trade is working
> correctly.
> > >>
> > >> Tom
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> *From:* tuzo_wilson <j.tuzo.wilson@xxx>
> > >> *To:* amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 31, 2008 7:31 AM
> > >> *Subject:* SV: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money?
> > >>
> > >> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Jan Malmberg" <jan@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Is it not obvious to you that some people�s personality
> calls for a
> > >> trading system, while others personality calls for a
> discretionary
> > >> approach.
> > >>
> > >> I think that is the best thing that I've read on this thread!
> > >>
> > >> Tuzo
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
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