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Hello TJ,
> Hello,
>
> You got it ALL WRONG !
No, I don't think so. I will explain below, why.
>
> AmiBroker 5.0 ***DOES WORK*** with UAC enabled !!!!
> ==========================================
>
> AmiBroker 5.0 is fully Vista compatible and it DOES WORK
> on limited user account!
Yes, it does. I drew a wrong conclusion - but, again, see my remarks
below.
>
> The only thing that need to be done with Admin account is
> to run SETUP (but this is the same for all application).
> And there is simple reason for that - AmIBroker exposes OLE
> automation interface (unlike many other apps) and registering OLE
> requries admin rights - send complaints to MICROSOFT not me.
It has to be installed with admin rights, of course, but that's not I'm
talking about.
>
> The reason why it default to exe folder are many fold:
> a) backward compatibility (Win 95/98)
That's not a convincing argument. Firefox, e.g., also works with Windows
9x but still behaves as expected.
> b) compatiblity with USB drives - so you can run AmiBroker from
> thumbdrive, without leaving traces in "C:\Document and Settings" on
> public computer.
Okay, this may be relevant for some users.
> c) easier management - everything that is connected
> with a program in one place - so it is easy to backup /restore via
> simple FILE COPY.
> For example - I don't install programs into C:\Program files at all
> !!! This is extremely silly thing to do to install programs onto your
> system (C: drive).
>
> The fact that Microsoft puts everything on C: does not mean that it
> is good idea.
>
> You should have SEPARATE partition for programs and SEPARATE for
> operating system.
>
> That way system partion can be smaller and periodical backups of
> system partition are easier/quicker to perform and smaller.
I disagree with these statements. First of all, I'm not sure if it's
very relevant if the backup of my c: drive contains a few hundred
MBytes or even 1 GByte more. Note: I'm NOT talking about settings and
data/documents! They should be saved on another partition, indeed.
That's why it's much more important to separate applications from their
settings/data rather than separating the OS from the program files.
(This is also be done on a Linux system where all data are saved
in /home which should be created on a separate partition).
The crucial point is that a limited user doesn't have write permission
for %ProgramFiles% . I had implemented this in a very consequent
manner, and this was the reason that AB didn't work properly before.
And this was also the reason for my wrong conclusion that AB wouldn't
work with UAC. Now, after your post I decided to perform a test. I made
a backup of my AB folder and deinstalled AB completely. Then I
installed it anew - and it worked without a problem even under my
limited account.
But why did it work? I checked the folder/file permissions, and now it's
obvious. Whereas for any other subfolders under Program Files a limited
user has only read and execute permissions (as expected!), the
Amibroker subfolder is created in such a way that a limited user has
also write permission! No wonder that it works under a limited account!
I'm sorry to say that this approach undermines the default security
policy in Windows to a certain extent! A cornerstone of that security
policy (which is explained in detail on
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb456992.aspx) is that no
limited user has write permission to %SystemRoot%, &ProgramFiles% and
most parts of the registry. And all settings and data have to be saved
in the user-specific Documents and Settings folder. This provides high
security as any malware executed in the security context of a limited
account is not able to seriously harm your system. This LUA approach
can be even improved by adding a Software Restriction Policy as
described on, e.g., http://www.mechbgon.com/srp/ . I know, of course,
that only a minority of the Windows users implements such a security
strategy but this fact doesn't nullify its value and logic.
Violating this default security policy at least partially by making the
AB folder writable for limited users without notifying him/her about it
is a, well, very questionable "trick" to say the least.
>
> So throw stones at Microsoft, not me.
I'm not thowing stones at anybody. I'm just saying that I've been
running a limited account for many years and I have
installed/deinstalled probably hundreds of applications since then.
That's why I know exactly how an application behaves that is fully
aware of user accounts. Amibroker is not.
Best regards,
Thomas
>
> Best regards,
> Tomasz Janeczko
> amibroker.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Ludwig" <Thomas.Ludwig@xxxxxx>
> To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 2:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [amibroker] OT: XP / Vista
>
> > TJ,
> >
> > quite frankly, I find it a little bit strange that you recommend to
> > disable UAC - it's an important security feature in Vista after
> > all. The reason why AB doesn't work with UAC is the same reason why
> > AB doesn't work properly in a limited user account under XP. I know
> > that most XP users are permanently logged on as admin.
> > Nevertheless, any application compliant to the Microsoft standards
> > should save its settings and data in the respective c:\Documents
> > and Settings\<user> folder (and - if needed - in the respective
> > HKCU registry branch) as all newer applications do.
> >
> > AB simply doesn't do that. I tried it: I changed all paths in the
> > settings menu and AA to another folder and moved the relevant
> > subfolders to that folder, but AB still tries to save some data in
> > c: \Program Files. And that's also the reason why it doesn't work
> > with UAC under Vista. The only way how to circumvent this problem
> > is either installation in a folder different from c:\Program Files
> > where the user has write permission or to start AB with admin
> > rights every time. But that's really not what's intended.
> >
> > Are you planning to change that behaviour in the foreseable future?
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Thomas
> >
> >> At least AmiBroker runs fine on Vista. I have Vista on my notebook
> >> and it is just fine. As long as you run 32 bit Vista and you
> >> disable some new features like SuperFetch and UAC, Vista behaves
> >> pretty much the same as XP.
> >> Most problems people have with Vista come from UAC (user access
> >> control) that creates compatibility issues for old applications.
> >> As soon as you turn that off (from Control Panel) there are no
> >> problems in installing programs from even from 1998.
> >>
> >> The RAM consumption people are afraid of is
> >> a result of superfetch feature that loads every program you use
> >> frequently on startup, but it can be easily disabled. Sooner of
> >> later Microsoft will tell people that XP is no longer supported.
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Tomasz Janeczko
> >> amibroker.com
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: MillowenaJuno
> >> To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 6:58 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [amibroker] OT: XP / Vista
> >>
> >>
> >> I've heard too many complaints about vista to even consider it
> >> at this point. Most vendors will supply XP if you insist. Why be
> >> a beta tester for Micorsoft's latest?
> >>
> >> M
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Ara Kaloustian
> >> To: AB-Main
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 12:20 PM
> >> Subject: [amibroker] OT: XP / Vista
> >>
> >>
> >> I am about to buy a laptop ... wondering if I should get it
> >> with XP or Vista.
> >>
> >> I am quite happy with my XPs so I'd rather stay with it unless
> >> there is some compelling reason to migrate to Vista.
> >>
> >> Appreciate any feedback
> >>
> >> Ara
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>--- -------
> >>
> >>
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release
> >> Date: 2/27/2008 4:34 PM
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
> >
> > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
> > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
> >
> > For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG:
> > http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/
> >
> > For other support material please check also:
> > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
>
> To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
>
> For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG:
> http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/
>
> For other support material please check also:
> http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
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SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG:
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For other support material please check also:
http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
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