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RE: [amibroker] Newe User - Some General Questions : )



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Toe,

 

I’m “Dan”   J    Welcome to the group!

 

Dipping one’s toe (pardon the pun) into the waters of technical analysis can be challenging.   Sometimes, you feel like a “Stranger In A Strange Land”!   Lots of issues, possibilities, and dead ends.   (I know because I been down most of them!)  Hopefully we can help you better swim through the murky waters.

 

In general, I agree with Patrick and his comments.   Look below for more detailed, inline comments.

 

Regarding AB, I’ve used many charting and analytical packages over the last six years.   Many have a nicer looking UI than AB.  Some have well over 100 built-in indicators.  Some come with data as part of the package.  But NONE have the power and flexibility of AB.

 

Here are two of my posts to the AB Yahoo user group comparing Telechart and QuotesPlus:

 

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/message/85659

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/message/86251

 

The first is my initial report about two months ago.  The second is my final report a few weeks later.  Look for other posts with that title.  Other AB users added additional, excellent information including some things that I missed. 

 

One other point…  Since I posted the comparison, my opinion has polarized even further.   I would never go back to TeleChart.

 

Regards,

 

Dan.


From: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of NW Trader
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 3:27 PM
To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [amibroker] Newe User - Some General Questions : )

 

Hi Toe,

 

If you want a good comparison, check for the comments Dan wrote in evaluation of both TC and QP this past summer (look about the end of July, first part of August, thread subject: Report on Quotes Plus Data, or search for Quotes Plus).  For several reasons he switched to QP3 from TC2005.  I continue to use both.

 

I'm a TA trader (swing and intraday), I trade for a living, and do some sorts/explorations on fundamental data (usually on the weekends).  I use end of day data feeds from QP and TC2005 (TC also has intraday updating, ~ 15-20 min delayed), and intraday data feeds from eSignal, and (via QuoteTracker) Prophet.net and several brokerages.  Intraday I mostly rely on the eSignal data to feed AB (trades and watchlists) and do some scans on large watchlist using TC2005 delayed.  I have multiple computers, multiple broadband connections and maintain multiple data bases (both end of day and intraday) for AB.  But to respond to your questions:

 

1st: If I do a FA scan or sort in QP3/TC2005, can the results be imported into AB, so I can then run TA over those results? Yes -- but for the most part, I don't know why you would want to do so --  AB explorations run much faster than either QP or TC.  You can access most (if not all) of the fundamental data fields in QP using the "GetExtralData()" command.  TC has virtually no fundamentals exposed to AB.  But yes, ticker lists generated from any source can be imported into AB watchlists from .lst, .tls, .txt, or .csv files with a simple Import procedure.  

[Dan] I strongly agree on this point.   I very much like using QP data in AB, especially for its access to “ExtraData”.    Initially I tried running scans in TC and then importing the results into AB.  It was a serious hassle!!!  

 

Currently I have two scans that each take 12 to 15 minutes to run in AB.   90% of the functionality of these scans can NOT be implemented in either TC or QP.   One piece of the second scan was originally designed for TC.   It took 19 separate, manual steps to implement in TC.  Now I just ONE push a button in AB.  

 

I’m a database architect by profession (fancy name for a database developer).   My professional opinion of Telechart’s programming language and architecture is that it is seriously flawed.  The Watchlist sorting has some nice features, but much of the scanning process is based on loading PCFs into Watchlist and then sorting, selecting, sorting again, flagging, unflagging, etc.   Initially it sounds great, but you hit the “wall” pretty fast.    

 

For example, let’s say that you have a scan that looks for stocks whose price is diverging from an indicator (that’s the 19 step one mentioned above).   My scan resulted in about 90 stocks that met criteria.   From there it was a manual review of the charts.  OK, I could deal with that.  So I reviewed each of the 90 stocks and loaded the interesting 10-15 interesting ones into a Watchlist.  Great!  Until the next day…

 

Then I ran the scan again.  Guess what?!?  The scan found most of the 90 stocks from day one plus a few more in day two.   Now why would I want to re-review the symbols that are already in my “Stalking” Watchlist or ones that I’ve already decided to exclude!?!

 

So, I posted to the Worden support forum - “How can I exclude symbols?  Can I set up an ‘Exclude’ Watchlist?”  Their response:  “Sorry, that can’t be done.  What you can do is manually review your list of 2000 tradable stocks and delete the ones you don’t want.”  My response: “Uh, right!  Sure!  Happy to!”  NOT!

 

(You might detect a certain level of frustration here.)

 

Conversely, if I approached things via TA 1st in AB, can I export results from AB into either QP3 or TC2005 for further FA?  Yes, you can export explorations or scan results to  .lst, .tls, .txt, or .csv files with a simple export procedure to create a list to import elsewhere.  If you just want to create a watchlist to track in QP, TC or Excel, certainly that can be done.  I rarely use the chart or other programs that come with QP as AB "does it all" for me so QP (and for the most part) TC2005 are merely data feeds any more.

[Dan] Patrick is correct.  You can.  It’s very easy.   However, I can’t imagine doing that.    With QP data, you can do much more in AB.   For example, here is a “Commentary” Patrick wrote and shared with me.  All of the data is retrieved and calculated directly from QP price, volume and fundamental data.  Virtually all of this data can be used in an AB scan, exploration or chart:

 

STOCK REPORT with Fundamental Data available from Quotes Plus for:     LKQX

 

COMPANY NAME:   LKQ CORP-COM

 

Briefing:   LKQ Corporation is a nationwide provider of recycled OEM automotive products and related services. For the 6 months ended 6/30/05, revenues increased 32% to $269.8M. Net income increased 46% to $16M. Revenues reflect higher volume of products sold, an increase in number of customers served and business acquisitions. Net income also reflects improved operating margins and increase in interest and other income.<P><P>

 

 

****************** SUMMARY INFORMATION **************************

FOR:  10/7/2005

 

CLOSE:            30.50

Volume:             115,659

 

High Close in past 21 days:   30.67

 

52 Week High Close:   32.00

52 week Low Close:    13.60

 

Options:   Options are NOT traded on this issue                 

 

Market Capitalization           741.2

 

QuotesPlus Relative Strength:     87.000

 

Beta - issue Volatility:                    0.000

ADX(14) =  15.7             Trend:    Down

ATR(5)   =    1.04

 

Gizzard Stock Criteria Met:       YES

DAY TRADER POTENTIAL:   NO

 

 

****************** DETAIL INFORMATION *******************************

 

 --- Share and Volume Data  -----

 

Number of Shares (millions):   24.30

 

Date:                                                      10/7/2005

Volume (millions):  0.116      % of 21 day MA: 59.7%

Daily Average Volume Traded prior   5 days (millions):        0.222

Daily Average Volume Traded prior 21 days (millions):        0.192

Daily Average Volume Traded prior 50 days (millions):        0.184

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

 ---   Stock Ownership Information  ---

 

Shares Outstanding (millions):                    21.23

Shares Float (millions):                               18.00

 

Float Turnover (days, based on 10 day Avg Vol)     63.30

 

Percent of Shares held by Institution:             57.79%

 

Short interest (millions):                                 0.90

Float / Short Ratio:                                       20.02

Short Interest as % of Shares Outstanding:   4.2%

Short Interest as % of Float:                           5.0%

Days to Cover Short:                                     4.644

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

 --- Fundamental Data ---  

 

High PE range:      0.000

Low PE range:      0.000

Price/Earnings Growth Ratio:      0.000

Annual Dividend:      0.000

 

Cash Flow per Share:                  1.461

Long term debt to equity:             0.244

Return on Equity:                       12.205

Bookvalue in dollars per share:  10.804

 

1-year growth rate of earnings per share:     14.972

5-year growth rate of earnings per share:     68.185

One Year Projected EPS Growth:     17.073

Two Year Projected EPS Growth:     17.708

Three Year Projected EPS Growth:     16.000

TTM Sales:     23.617

TTM EPS:        1.110

 

 

One month price change:      62.00%

Three month price change:    280.00%

Six month price change:      1,100.00%

One year price change:       1,691.00%

 

Is there any validity in purchasing *both* products given the redundancy of many features in each if I had both?  This is idiosyncratic -- I do, as each has data and features that I find useful (intraday updates in TC so I can quickly scan larger stock watchlists, albeit delayed, fundamentals in QP not available in TC, etc).  The nominal cost of 25-30 a month is a fraction of my trading expenses (several trade commissions) and I believe they easily pay for themselves -- can't say that about other data vendors I've used, however.  It is no problem to have both databases on the same machine, to export/import scan/exploration results between the two (e.g., I scan for low float issues in QP, then send to a watchlist in the TC supported AB database to scan against because TC doesn't provide float data).  As to program features, I really don't use either QP or TC programs much -- perhaps I'll look at TC occasionally for a fast intraday update to a PCF/EZ Scan generated list. 

[Dan] QP does not provide intraday updates to data, only EOD.   That’s about the only benefit that I can think of.  But I’m a swing trader.   I don’t trade intraday any more.   So that’s not an issue for me.  

 

If I want intraday updates, I can get the data from Interactive Brokers.    I’m thinking about getting an EOD subscription to eSignal just for the one-minute data.   Neither TC nor QP provide this.  QP only does daily data and TC only provides 15 minute bars real time (at $100/month!).  

 

Also, I do not use the QP charting and analysis tools except maybe to audit the data.  I believe that Patrick uses TC data to compare to QP data.  That’s another advantage of having both.  For me, the cost is less of an issue.  It’s the hassle of keeping two systems updated.  For me, it’s just not worth the hassle.

 

2nd: I am an EOD swing style trader, but would like access on some occasions to *intraday* data for optimal entries and exits.  Is there a way that this data can be obtained easily and cheaply for those times I need it, for certain equities?  Depends on what you want and how you trade -- I time my entries on the shorter trades, and somewhat for the longer swings as well.  I use  intraday updates from TC2005 for delayed data (to update a larger database for general scans) and other real-time data vendors (for trade, breakout and other watchlist updates) .   I do not use (or recommend) "free" data, as many years ago I found that it was not reliable enough to risk my trading money on (especially Quote.com's stuff).  It sounds trite, but Robert Heinlein's TANSTAAFL (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch) applies.  But it's up to you.  You might want to check out Medved's QuoteTracker (http://www.quotetracker.com/) as a means to track issues and import data cheaply/freely to AB.  As noted above, I can use intraday data from Prophet.net data ( http://www.prophet.net/), PCQuote, and data from my brokers in QT and then access it in AB (via the QT plug-in).  QT supports a number of free and inexpensive data vendors and brokers (see: http://www.quotetracker.com/qsources.shtml ), including some in Australia.  Note as well that if you want intraday data, you will want to get the RT version of AB (AB Pro), not the standard.

[Dan] I agree on TANSTFFL.   You can get intraday data from Interactive Brokers.   It’s free if you have an account.  You can get up to 5 days of backfills.    I’ve tried it and it works pretty well.  For me, I’m just as happy using the charting provided by my broker to fine tune my order.   But then again, my trading volume is on the order of trades per month not trades per day (like Patrick).

 

I don't really understand what "backfill" is, but I suspect that has something to do with what I'm asking here...  Backfill is simply getting data for periods prior to the time you start accessing the data (whether in AB or some other program).  It is data vendor specific.  Some data vendors provide it (and in varying amounts and periods), others do not (see the QT data vendor list for examples).  ESignal (www.esignal.com) provides 10 days of tick and 120 days of 1 minute historic intraday data.  Unless you have been accumulating data for a particular issue, get a vendor that provides it if you need it.  You need it if you want to look at intraday support and resistance, pivot points, volume at price, etc. to help time your entry.  If you've had the stock on a watchlist you've been tracking and accumulating intraday data (in AB there's no limit to the amount you can accumulate), then you may not need it.  If you like to trade a stock you've done no workup on but hear that there's some news that's moving it, or want to look at recent intraday history of a stock that you've identified from an end of day scan and added to AB, you need it.  Again, you will need AB Pro.

[Dan] Interactive Brokers provide 5 days of backfill.  

 

3rd:  It is essential to me that GICS breakdowns into Sector/Industry Group/Industry etc are available and updated in whatever DB I use. Who maintains this - the data supplier or AB?  I'm not certain what you mean by GICS breakdowns.  To me industry and sector assignments are a secondary issue, not essential, so I've not spent much time on it.  I trade patterns principally, but do look for them in Sectors.  Generally, if your data vendor does it (both QP and TC have their systems of assignment) it saves you al lot of time, but you can set up your own in AB.  You might read Dan's comments or ask him as he is much more attuned to this issue, and there was a discussion with in the past couple months on sector assignment issues. 

[Dan] If you want GICS, you do NOT, repeat NOT, NOT, NOT want Telechart.  They have a flattened hierarchy with over thirty sectors.   They have Tobacco as a sector!!!    QP uses a mapping that is similar to, but not quite like GICS I believe.  Actually, I rather like QP’s mapping.  

 

4th: I realise that QP3 and TC2005 only provide their data for the US stock markets.  Does anybody know where similar (ie GICS-sorted, OHLC and key fundamentals) might be available for ASX (Australian) listed stocks?  Ask Graham or the other Aussies here and look in the files section for the ASX files.  ESignal does supply foreign exchange data, so do other data vendors.  I have no experience with any as I trade the US NASDAQ issues almost exclusively.  Try GTW - (Google the Web).

 

I would need such data to be usable in AB, and again, a cost effective solution would be preferred!  Is is possible to maintain you own ticker lists and somehow use them to gather free EOD data (eg: Yahoo) for use in AB, or is this not worth the effort given all of the GICS groupings and constant changes etc. Yes, you can set up and manage your own ticker list database and use a free data source in AB.  But repeat after me, " Cheap, Quick, Working" -- pick any 2, but you can't have all three (AB is the only exception I know of that proves this rule).  If it's Quick and Working, it's going to cost more, if it's Cheap and Working, it's going to take some time, and if it's Cheap and Quick, it won't work well.  My time is spent trading, not adjusting data bases (for splits, mergers, new tickers, ticker changes, dividends, etc.,  as well as maintaining assignments to Sectors, Industries, etc), so I'm quite willing to pay a data vendor to do that, provided they do.  QP and TC are worth it. 

[Dan] I agree completely.   One big issue for you will be the Sector and Industry mappings.  With QP (and TC), you just click a button to import all of the Sectors and Industries AND the Stock to Industry/Sector mappings.  

 

As professional database developer, I’ve built many systems that cleanse and manage data.   I’m very qualified to do it.   But I would NEVER, EVER do it for my stock data.   Managing data is one serious hassle.  I don’t have the time.

 

Pay the bucks to QP, TC, eSignal or whoever and let them do it.   

 

I am quite adept at writing complex excel formula, so I hope that a)the AFL is similar in construction and concept, and that b) I can contribute in a worthwhile manner here in the future!!  I'm not a programmer, not particularly adept (but moderately proficient) in excel, and I've been able to learn to program AFL.  IMHO, it's not hard.  Others are certainly better than I and there are some capabilities of AB that I've never bothered to learn, but the user group is a great community of sharing, Tomasz is a paragon of patience and exemplar of incredible user support, and (as Dan has eloquently explained at diverse times) AB is like an onion with layers of capability that can be peeled to suit any user's needs and abilities.  Welcome, good luck and do let us know what you come up with.

[Dan] If you can write Excel code, you can probably program AB.  You will probably have some head-scratching session like you would with any analytical/charting tool you buy.    It’s just part of the learning process.   When you feel more comfortable with it, you can be more aggressive. 

 

One of the WONDERFUL things about AB is the ability to peel back the covers.  Just create a chart and insert some indicators into panes.  Then, right-click on a pane and click “Edit Formula”.   A window will pop up and display the code that creates your chart.   You can make a few changes, click the “check” button to validate the code, then click save.   Your changes appear in the chart.  

 

Or, you can download formulas from the formula library and insert them into charts and scans.   Most of the things that you will want to program have already been coded and exist in the library.   Just download a copy, try it and then modify to taste.   (Tip: Effective programmers copy a lot.  We haven’t the time to waste.)

 

For example, here’s a simple momentum indicator from the library:

http://www.amibroker.com/library/detail.php?id=539

 

And here’s a nice looking “MACD and histogram divergence detection” AFL, which I just downloaded:

http://www.amibroker.com/library/detail.php?id=562

 

 

 

 

Peace and Justice   ---   Patrick




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