Toe,
I’m “Dan”
J
Welcome to the group!
Dipping one’s toe
(pardon the pun) into the waters of technical analysis can be
challenging. Sometimes, you feel like a “Stranger In A Strange
Land”! Lots of issues, possibilities, and dead ends.
(I know because I been down most of them!) Hopefully we can help you
better swim through the murky waters.
In general, I agree
with Patrick and his comments. Look below for more detailed,
inline comments.
Regarding AB, I’ve
used many charting and analytical packages over the last six
years. Many have a nicer looking UI than AB. Some have well
over 100 built-in indicators. Some come with data as part of the
package. But NONE have the power and flexibility of AB.
Here are two of my
posts to the AB Yahoo user group comparing Telechart and QuotesPlus:
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/message/85659
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/message/86251
The first is my
initial report about two months ago. The second is my final report a few
weeks later. Look for other posts with that title. Other AB users
added additional, excellent information including some things that I
missed.
One other
point… Since I posted the comparison, my opinion has polarized even
further. I would never go back to
TeleChart.
Regards,
Dan.
From:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of NW Trader
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 3:27
PM
To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [amibroker] Newe User - Some
General Questions : )
If you want a good comparison, check for the comments
Dan wrote in evaluation of both TC and QP this past summer (look about
the end of July, first part of August, thread subject: Report on Quotes Plus
Data, or search for Quotes Plus). For several reasons he switched to QP3
from TC2005. I continue to use both.
I'm a TA trader (swing and intraday), I trade for a
living, and do some sorts/explorations on fundamental data (usually on the
weekends). I use end of day data feeds from QP and TC2005 (TC also has
intraday updating, ~ 15-20 min delayed), and intraday data feeds from eSignal,
and (via QuoteTracker) Prophet.net and several brokerages. Intraday I
mostly rely on the eSignal data to feed AB (trades and watchlists) and do some
scans on large watchlist using TC2005 delayed. I have multiple
computers, multiple broadband connections and maintain multiple data
bases (both end of day and intraday) for AB. But to respond to
your questions:
1st: If I do a FA scan
or sort in QP3/TC2005, can the results be imported into AB, so I can then run
TA over those results? Yes -- but for the most part, I don't know why you
would want to do so -- AB explorations run much faster than either QP or
TC. You can access most (if not all) of the fundamental data fields in
QP using the "GetExtralData()" command. TC has virtually no fundamentals
exposed to AB. But yes, ticker lists generated from any source can be
imported into AB watchlists from .lst, .tls, .txt, or .csv files
with a simple Import procedure.
[Dan]
I strongly agree on this point. I very much like using QP data in
AB, especially for its access to “ExtraData”. Initially I
tried running scans in TC and then importing the results into AB. It was
a serious hassle!!!
Currently
I have two scans that each take 12 to 15 minutes to run in AB. 90%
of the functionality of these scans can NOT be implemented in either TC or
QP. One piece of the second scan was originally designed for
TC. It took 19 separate, manual steps to implement in TC.
Now I just ONE push a button in AB.
I’m
a database architect by profession (fancy name for a database
developer). My professional opinion of Telechart’s
programming language and architecture is that it is seriously flawed.
The Watchlist sorting has some nice features, but much of the scanning process
is based on loading PCFs into Watchlist and then sorting, selecting, sorting
again, flagging, unflagging, etc. Initially it sounds great, but
you hit the “wall” pretty fast.
For
example, let’s say that you have a scan that looks for stocks whose price is
diverging from an indicator (that’s the 19 step one mentioned
above). My scan resulted in about 90 stocks that met
criteria. From there it was a manual review of the charts.
OK, I could deal with that. So I reviewed each of the 90 stocks and
loaded the interesting 10-15 interesting ones into a Watchlist.
Great! Until the next day…
Then
I ran the scan again. Guess what?!? The scan found most of the 90
stocks from day one plus a few more in day two. Now why would I
want to re-review the symbols that are already in my “Stalking” Watchlist or
ones that I’ve already decided to
exclude!?!
So,
I posted to the Worden support forum - “How can I exclude symbols? Can I
set up an ‘Exclude’ Watchlist?” Their response: “Sorry, that can’t
be done. What you can do is manually review your list of 2000 tradable
stocks and delete the ones you don’t want.” My response: “Uh,
right! Sure! Happy to!”
NOT!
(You
might detect a certain level of frustration
here.)
Conversely, if I
approached things via TA 1st in AB, can I export results from AB into either
QP3 or TC2005 for further FA? Yes, you can export explorations or scan results
to .lst, .tls, .txt, or .csv files with a simple export procedure
to create a list to import elsewhere. If you just want to create a
watchlist to track in QP, TC or Excel, certainly that can be done. I
rarely use the chart or other programs that come with QP as AB "does it all"
for me so QP (and for the most part) TC2005 are merely data feeds any more.
[Dan]
Patrick is correct. You can. It’s very easy. However,
I can’t imagine doing that. With QP data, you can do much
more in AB. For example, here is a “Commentary” Patrick wrote and
shared with me. All of the data is retrieved and calculated directly
from QP price, volume and fundamental data. Virtually all of this data
can be used in an AB scan, exploration or
chart:
STOCK REPORT
with Fundamental Data available from Quotes Plus for:
LKQX
COMPANY
NAME: LKQ CORP-COM
Briefing:
LKQ Corporation is a nationwide provider of recycled OEM automotive products
and related services. For the 6 months ended 6/30/05, revenues increased 32%
to $269.8M. Net income increased 46% to $16M. Revenues reflect higher volume
of products sold, an increase in number of customers served and business
acquisitions. Net income also reflects improved operating margins and increase
in interest and other income.<P><P>
******************
SUMMARY INFORMATION **************************
FOR:
10/7/2005
CLOSE:
30.50
Volume:
115,659
High Close in
past 21 days: 30.67
52 Week High
Close: 32.00
52 week Low
Close: 13.60
Options:
Options are NOT traded on this
issue
Market
Capitalization
741.2
QuotesPlus
Relative Strength: 87.000
Beta - issue
Volatility:
0.000
ADX(14)
=
15.7
Trend: Down
ATR(5)
= 1.04
Gizzard Stock
Criteria Met:
YES
DAY TRADER
POTENTIAL: NO
******************
DETAIL INFORMATION
*******************************
---
Share and Volume Data -----
Number of
Shares (millions): 24.30
Date:
10/7/2005
Volume
(millions): 0.116 % of 21 day MA:
59.7%
Daily Average
Volume Traded prior 5 days
(millions):
0.222
Daily Average
Volume Traded prior 21 days
(millions):
0.192
Daily Average
Volume Traded prior 50 days
(millions):
0.184
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---
Stock Ownership Information ---
Shares
Outstanding
(millions):
21.23
Shares Float
(millions):
18.00
Float Turnover
(days, based on 10 day Avg Vol)
63.30
Percent of
Shares held by
Institution:
57.79%
Short interest
(millions):
0.90
Float / Short
Ratio:
20.02
Short Interest
as % of Shares Outstanding: 4.2%
Short Interest
as % of
Float:
5.0%
Days to Cover
Short:
4.644
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---
Fundamental Data ---
High PE
range: 0.000
Low PE
range: 0.000
Price/Earnings
Growth Ratio: 0.000
Annual
Dividend: 0.000
Cash Flow per
Share:
1.461
Long term debt
to
equity:
0.244
Return on
Equity:
12.205
Bookvalue in
dollars per share: 10.804
1-year growth
rate of earnings per share:
14.972
5-year growth
rate of earnings per share:
68.185
One Year
Projected EPS Growth:
17.073
Two Year
Projected EPS Growth:
17.708
Three Year
Projected EPS Growth:
16.000
TTM
Sales: 23.617
TTM
EPS:
1.110
One month
price change:
62.00%
Three month
price change: 280.00%
Six month
price change:
1,100.00%
One year price
change:
1,691.00%
Is there any validity in
purchasing *both* products given the redundancy of many features in each if I
had both? This is idiosyncratic -- I do, as each has data and
features that I find useful (intraday updates in TC so I can quickly scan
larger stock watchlists, albeit delayed, fundamentals in QP not available in
TC, etc). The nominal cost of 25-30 a month is a fraction of my trading
expenses (several trade commissions) and I believe they easily pay for
themselves -- can't say that about other data vendors I've used,
however. It is no problem to have both databases on the
same machine, to export/import scan/exploration results between the two (e.g.,
I scan for low float issues in QP, then send to a watchlist in the TC
supported AB database to scan against because TC doesn't provide float
data). As to program features, I really don't use either QP or TC
programs much -- perhaps I'll look at TC occasionally for a fast intraday
update to a PCF/EZ Scan generated list.
[Dan]
QP does not provide intraday updates to data, only EOD. That’s
about the only benefit that I can think of. But I’m a swing
trader. I don’t trade intraday any more. So that’s not
an issue for me.
If
I want intraday updates, I can get the data from Interactive
Brokers. I’m thinking about getting an EOD subscription to
eSignal just for the one-minute data. Neither TC nor QP provide
this. QP only does daily data and TC only provides 15 minute bars real
time (at $100/month!).
Also,
I do not use the QP charting and analysis tools except maybe to audit the
data. I believe that Patrick uses TC data to compare to QP data.
That’s another advantage of having both. For me, the cost is less of an
issue. It’s the hassle of keeping two systems updated. For me,
it’s just not worth the hassle.
2nd: I am an EOD swing
style trader, but would like access on some occasions to *intraday* data for
optimal entries and exits. Is there a way that this data can be obtained
easily and cheaply for those times I need it, for certain
equities? Depends on what you want and how you trade --
I time my entries on the shorter trades, and somewhat for the longer
swings as well. I use intraday updates from TC2005 for
delayed data (to update a larger database for general scans) and other
real-time data vendors (for trade, breakout and other watchlist updates)
. I do not use (or recommend) "free" data, as many years ago
I found that it was not reliable enough to risk my trading money on
(especially Quote.com's stuff). It sounds trite, but Robert
Heinlein's TANSTAAFL (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch)
applies. But it's up to you. You might want to check out Medved's
QuoteTracker (http://www.quotetracker.com/) as a
means to track issues and import data cheaply/freely to AB. As noted
above, I can use intraday data from Prophet.net data ( http://www.prophet.net/), PCQuote, and data
from my brokers in QT and then access it in AB (via the QT plug-in).
QT supports a number of free and inexpensive data vendors and
brokers (see: http://www.quotetracker.com/qsources.shtml ),
including some in Australia. Note as well that
if you want intraday data, you will want to get the RT version of AB (AB Pro),
not the standard.
[Dan]
I agree on TANSTFFL. You can get intraday data from Interactive
Brokers. It’s free if you have an account. You can get up to
5 days of backfills. I’ve tried it and it works pretty
well. For me, I’m just as happy using the charting provided by my broker
to fine tune my order. But then again, my trading volume is on the
order of trades per month not trades per day (like Patrick).
I don't really understand
what "backfill" is, but I suspect that has something to do with what I'm
asking here... Backfill is simply getting data for periods prior
to the time you start accessing the data (whether in AB or some other
program). It is data vendor specific. Some data vendors provide it
(and in varying amounts and periods), others do not (see the QT data vendor
list for examples). ESignal (www.esignal.com) provides 10 days
of tick and 120 days of 1 minute historic intraday data.
Unless you have been accumulating data for a particular issue, get a
vendor that provides it if you need it. You need it if you want to look
at intraday support and resistance, pivot points, volume at price, etc. to
help time your entry. If you've had the stock on a watchlist you've been
tracking and accumulating intraday data (in AB there's no limit to the
amount you can accumulate), then you may not need it. If you
like to trade a stock you've done no workup on but hear that there's some news
that's moving it, or want to look at recent intraday history of a stock that
you've identified from an end of day scan and added to AB, you need it.
Again, you will need AB Pro.
[Dan]
Interactive Brokers provide 5 days of backfill.
3rd: It is essential
to me that GICS breakdowns into Sector/Industry Group/Industry etc are
available and updated in whatever DB I use. Who maintains this - the data
supplier or AB? I'm not certain what you mean by GICS breakdowns.
To me industry and sector assignments are a secondary issue, not
essential, so I've not spent much time on it. I trade patterns
principally, but do look for them in Sectors. Generally, if your data
vendor does it (both QP and TC have their systems of assignment) it saves
you al lot of time, but you can set up your own in AB. You might read
Dan's comments or ask him as he is much more attuned to this issue, and there
was a discussion with in the past couple months on sector
assignment issues.
[Dan]
If you want GICS, you do NOT, repeat NOT, NOT, NOT want Telechart. They
have a flattened hierarchy with over thirty sectors. They have
Tobacco as a sector!!! QP uses a mapping that is similar to,
but not quite like GICS I believe. Actually, I rather like QP’s
mapping.
4th: I realise that QP3
and TC2005 only provide their data for the US stock
markets. Does anybody know where similar (ie GICS-sorted, OHLC and key
fundamentals) might be available for ASX (Australian) listed stocks?
Ask Graham or
the other Aussies here and look in the files section for the ASX
files. ESignal does supply foreign exchange data, so do other data
vendors. I have no experience with any as I trade the US NASDAQ issues
almost exclusively. Try GTW - (Google the
Web).
I would need such data to
be usable in AB, and again, a cost effective solution would be
preferred! Is is possible to maintain you own ticker lists and somehow
use them to gather free EOD data (eg: Yahoo) for use in AB, or is this not
worth the effort given all of the GICS groupings and constant changes etc.
Yes, you can
set up and manage your own ticker list database and use a free data source
in AB. But repeat after me, " Cheap, Quick,
Working" -- pick any 2, but you can't have all
three (AB is the only exception I know of that proves this rule). If
it's Quick and Working, it's going to cost more, if it's Cheap and
Working, it's going to take some time, and if it's Cheap and Quick, it
won't work well. My time is spent trading, not adjusting data
bases (for splits, mergers, new tickers, ticker changes, dividends, etc.,
as well as maintaining assignments to Sectors, Industries, etc), so I'm
quite willing to pay a data vendor to do that, provided they do. QP and
TC are worth it.
[Dan]
I agree completely. One big issue for you will be the Sector and
Industry mappings. With QP (and TC), you just click a button to import
all of the Sectors and Industries AND the Stock to Industry/Sector
mappings.
As
professional database developer, I’ve built many systems that cleanse and
manage data. I’m very qualified to do it. But I would
NEVER, EVER do it for my stock data. Managing data is one serious
hassle. I don’t have the time.
Pay
the bucks to QP, TC, eSignal or whoever and let them do it.
I am quite adept at
writing complex excel formula, so I hope that a)the AFL is similar in
construction and concept, and that b) I can contribute in a worthwhile manner
here in the future!! I'm not a programmer, not particularly adept (but
moderately proficient) in excel, and I've been able to learn to
program AFL. IMHO, it's not hard. Others are certainly better
than I and there are some capabilities of AB that I've never bothered to
learn, but the user group is a great community of sharing, Tomasz is a paragon
of patience and exemplar of incredible user support, and (as Dan
has eloquently explained at diverse times) AB is like an onion with
layers of capability that can be peeled to suit any user's needs and
abilities. Welcome, good luck and do let us know what you
come up with.
[Dan]
If you can write Excel code, you can probably program AB. You will
probably have some head-scratching session like you would with any
analytical/charting tool you buy. It’s just part of the
learning process. When you feel more comfortable with it, you can
be more aggressive.
One
of the WONDERFUL things about AB is the ability to peel back the covers.
Just create a chart and insert some indicators into panes. Then,
right-click on a pane and click “Edit Formula”. A window will pop
up and display the code that creates your chart. You can make a
few changes, click the “check” button to validate the code, then click
save. Your changes appear in the chart.
Or,
you can download formulas from the formula library and insert them into charts
and scans. Most of the things that you will want to program have
already been coded and exist in the library. Just download a copy,
try it and then modify to taste. (Tip: Effective programmers copy
a lot. We haven’t the time to
waste.)
For
example, here’s a simple momentum indicator from the library:
http://www.amibroker.com/library/detail.php?id=539
And
here’s a nice looking “MACD and histogram divergence detection” AFL, which I
just downloaded:
http://www.amibroker.com/library/detail.php?id=562
Peace and Justice ---
Patrick