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Oh I know ... That suggests that there is no difference in %
Gain/Loss regardless of whether or not margin is used. Most peoples
account balances would tell them something quite different.
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Tomasz Janeczko" <amibroker@xxxx>
wrote:
> Yes, you are right and this is exactly the difference between
_portfolio_ profit and
> _trade_ profit in AmiBroker.
>
> _Portfolio_ % profit uses EQUITY (so it is subject to leverage) as
base of calculations.
> _Trade_ % profit uses entry value (#shares * price) as base of
calculations.
>
> Best regards,
> Tomasz Janeczko
> amibroker.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred" <ftonetti@xxxx>
> To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:52 PM
> Subject: [amibroker] Re: AmiBroker Support
>
>
> > The definition of Equity is correct but the example was badly
> > worded ...
> >
> > What I should have said was ... There is no additional EQUITY by
> > utilizing additional buying power but investing the same dollar
> > amount because although assets increase, liabilities do as well
i.e.
> > whether leverage is 1x or 100x, EQUITY is the same until market
> > value changes. When market value changes EQUITY will be
impacted
> > 100x as much with leverage of 100x whether that be up or down.
> >
> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Fred" <ftonetti@xxxx> wrote:
> >> I'd agree that buying power is twice, but NOT equity. Equity
is
> >> defined as the difference between the market value of a
property
> > and
> >> the claims held against it. If this were not true then I could
> > have
> >> enjoyed having 10x the equity at the time of my last home
purchase
> > by
> >> buying a home for 10x as much and taking out a mortgage that
was
> > 10x
> >> as much.
> >>
> >> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Tomasz Janeczko"
> > <amibroker@xxxx>
> >> wrote:
> >> > [amibroker] Re: Script and Stockconsultant websiteHello,
> >> >
> >> > Just a few posts ago I think I expressed clearly what is
needed
> >> when contacting support:
> >> > http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/message/86456
> >> >
> >> > Sending screenshot alone means nothing to me.
> >> >
> >> > Since you do NOT provide all necessary details (formula,
> > settings)
> >> that are needed to analyse
> >> > the case you are giving me NO CHANCE to know what you have
done
> > to
> >> obtain results.
> >> >
> >> > _ASSUMING_ that this is the same case as Bert reported
earlier
> >> (comparing results obtained
> >> > with ^RUT with 50% margin with results obtained with UAPIX
> > without
> >> margin,
> >> > I can say that numbers ARE correct.
> >> >
> >> > I can copy-paste response which I sent to him with exact
> >> calculations explaining why:
> >> >
> >> > === MY RESPONSE TO BERT COPY PASTE SECTION 1 ===
> >> > In this example
> >> > we assume the following: that UAPIX movements are exactly 2x
the
> >> movement of ^RUT
> >> > (so there is exact 2x leverage between them). (Note that
this
> >> assumption may not be true in
> >> > reality and is used for illustration purposes only)
> >> >
> >> > say UAPIX moves from 23.77 to 24.77 (+4.2%) and your initial
> > equity
> >> is
> >> > 23770 so you purchase 1000 shares. Your profit is $1000 and
> > percent
> >> profit is +4.2%
> >> >
> >> > At the same time ^RUT moves 2.1% from 638.67 to 652.10.
> >> > Now your cash amount is the same as in previous case 23770
but
> > you
> >> are on
> >> > 50% margin so your buying power is twice as much 2*23770 =
47540.
> >> > So you can purchase 74.4359 shares (for simplicity
> >> > in the example we assume that fractional purchases are
possible)
> >> > Your dollar profit is (652.10-638.67) * 74.4359 = $1000
(approx
> > due
> >> to rounding) - the same
> >> > as in first case.
> >> >
> >> > Your PERCENT profit is however:
> >> > $1000 / $47540 = 2.1%
> >> >
> >> > This is so because in second case you had to buy shares for
> > $47540
> >> > while in first case you only spent $23770.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > If you want expectancy to be the same in both cases you
should
> > not
> >> use
> >> > percent profits but dollar profits instead.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > === MY RESPONSE TO BERT COPY PASTE SECTION 2 ===
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > When you use leveraged instrument BOTH % profit and dollar
> > profit
> >> are twice
> >> > because PERCENT is based on SMALLER EQUITY VALUE.
> >> >
> >> > ( 2 * DOLLAR GAIN ) / EQUITY = TWICE normal % profit
> >> >
> >> > If you use magin account PERCENT PROFIT is calculated from
> > HIGHER
> >> EQUITY VALUE.
> >> > When use 50% margin account your EQUITY is TWICE your cash.
> >> > So even if DOLLAR GAIN is twice, PERCENT GAIN is the SAME
> > because
> >> equity (buying power)
> >> > is TWICE.
> >> >
> >> > ( 2 * DOLLAR GAIN ) / ( 2 * EQUITY ) = DOLLAR GAIN / EQUITY =
> >> normal % profit
> >> >
> >> > This is so because on margin account you actually purchase
TWICE
> >> the original amount
> >> > and your dollar profit is also twice as much. But those 2/2
> > reduce
> >> and % profit remains the same.
> >> >
> >> > If you are using leveraged instrument, things are quite
> > different:
> >> > you invest only HALF the amount you would invest on margin
> > account,
> >> yet dollar profits are the same.
> >> > Hence percent profit is double.
> >> >
> >> > =====
> >> >
> >> > Best regards,
> >> > Tomasz Janeczko
> >> > amibroker.com
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: Fred Tonetti
> >> > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 1:58 AM
> >> > Subject: [amibroker] Re: AmiBroker Support
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Looks like the attachment didn't make it in the previous
post .
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > TJ,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Really ? Maybe we don't understand the statistics . See
the
> >> attachment. Same system on both sides traded without margin on
> > the
> >> left, with margin on the right.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Should:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > - Avg Profit/Loss% in ALL TRADES Section
> >> >
> >> > - Avg Profit % in WINNERS Section
> >> >
> >> > - Max Trade% Drawdown
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > be the same ?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > If so can you please explain ?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Thanks, Fred
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > = = = = = = = = = = =
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Follow up: I have made a check to verify your report about
> > avg.
> >> profit/loss
> >> > and all I can say is that I can not confirm your
observations.
> >> >
> >> > Best regards,
> >> > Tomasz Janeczko
> >> > amibroker.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Tomasz Janeczko" <amibroker@>
> >> > To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 5:51 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: [amibroker] Is AmiBroker Support on
> > Vacation, "rude"
> >> or what??
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > Hello,
> >> > >
> >> > > I have forwarded your message to Marcin for checking in
> > detail.
> >> > > One thing is sure that we do not "selectively decide"
what
> >> issues to respond
> >> > to.
> >> > >
> >> > > I have quickly checked the issue you mentioned and you
don't
> >> ask any question
> >> > in it.
> >> > >
> >> > > All I can see are some thoghts/observations.
> >> > >
> >> > > Best regards,
> >> > > Tomasz Janeczko
> >> > > amibroker.com
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "bistrader" <bistrader@>
> >> > > To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 4:35 PM
> >> > > Subject: [amibroker] Is AmiBroker Support on
> > Vacation, "rude"
> >> or what??
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >>I find it disturbing that AmiBroker Support selectively
> > decides
> >> what
> >> > >> issues it wants to respond to. I have talked to several
in
> > our
> >> > >> FastTrack group that send emails to AmiBroker Support
and
> > even
> >> Tomasz
> >> > >> asking for help. Oh sure, they get the standard message
> > saying
> >> that
> >> > >> a response will be provided within 24 hours but they
never
> >> hear a
> >> > >> thing on what they consider to be critical items. One
might
> >> ask, why
> >> > >> is AmiBroker Support and even Tomasz being so selective
in
> >> what they
> >> > >> repond to? I, for one, have no idea.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I certainly hope that this does not continue. I really
like
> > the
> >> > >> software and the response by AmiBroker prior to these
> > string
> >> of cases
> >> > >> has been quite good.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> In any case, I hope it changes. I saw a message recently
> > where
> >> > >> someone on this board implied that someone else was
being
> >> rude. Is
> >> > >> it "rude" when one tells you that a response will be
> > provided
> >> and
> >> > >> none ever is? Is it "rude" when someone does not respond
> > even
> >> when
> >> > >> repeated requests are made. I hope not. I would rather
> > think
> >> that
> >> > >> he/she just got caught up in the moment. An oversight,
if
> > you
> >> will.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> So, if interested, think about responding to request
22642
> >> originally
> >> > >> sent to AmiBroker on September 12th and then again on
> > September
> >> > >> 18th. Try to be nice as we should all practice what we
> > preach.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------
---
> > ---
> >> ----------
> >> >
> >> > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private
users.
> >> > It has removed 6178 spam emails to date.
> >> > Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
> >> > Try SPAMfighter for free now!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------
---
> > ---
> >> ----------
> >> > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private
users.
> >> > It has removed 6178 spam emails to date.
> >> > Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
> >> > Try SPAMfighter for free now!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Please note that this group is for discussion between users
> > only.
> >> >
> >> > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail
directly
> > to
> >> > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
> >> >
> >> > For other support material please check also:
> >> > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > SPONSORED LINKS Investment management software Real estate
> >> investment software Investment property software
> >> > Software support Real estate investment analysis
> > software
> >> Investment software
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------
---
> > ---
> >> ----------
> >> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >> >
> >> > a.. Visit your group "amibroker" on the web.
> >> >
> >> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> > amibroker-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >
> >> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > Terms
> >> of Service.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------
---
> > ---
> >> ----------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
> >
> > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
> > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
> >
> > For other support material please check also:
> > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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