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Yes, you are right and this is exactly the difference between _portfolio_ profit and
_trade_ profit in AmiBroker.
_Portfolio_ % profit uses EQUITY (so it is subject to leverage) as base of calculations.
_Trade_ % profit uses entry value (#shares * price) as base of calculations.
Best regards,
Tomasz Janeczko
amibroker.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred" <ftonetti@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:52 PM
Subject: [amibroker] Re: AmiBroker Support
> The definition of Equity is correct but the example was badly
> worded ...
>
> What I should have said was ... There is no additional EQUITY by
> utilizing additional buying power but investing the same dollar
> amount because although assets increase, liabilities do as well i.e.
> whether leverage is 1x or 100x, EQUITY is the same until market
> value changes. When market value changes EQUITY will be impacted
> 100x as much with leverage of 100x whether that be up or down.
>
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Fred" <ftonetti@xxxx> wrote:
>> I'd agree that buying power is twice, but NOT equity. Equity is
>> defined as the difference between the market value of a property
> and
>> the claims held against it. If this were not true then I could
> have
>> enjoyed having 10x the equity at the time of my last home purchase
> by
>> buying a home for 10x as much and taking out a mortgage that was
> 10x
>> as much.
>>
>> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Tomasz Janeczko"
> <amibroker@xxxx>
>> wrote:
>> > [amibroker] Re: Script and Stockconsultant websiteHello,
>> >
>> > Just a few posts ago I think I expressed clearly what is needed
>> when contacting support:
>> > http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/message/86456
>> >
>> > Sending screenshot alone means nothing to me.
>> >
>> > Since you do NOT provide all necessary details (formula,
> settings)
>> that are needed to analyse
>> > the case you are giving me NO CHANCE to know what you have done
> to
>> obtain results.
>> >
>> > _ASSUMING_ that this is the same case as Bert reported earlier
>> (comparing results obtained
>> > with ^RUT with 50% margin with results obtained with UAPIX
> without
>> margin,
>> > I can say that numbers ARE correct.
>> >
>> > I can copy-paste response which I sent to him with exact
>> calculations explaining why:
>> >
>> > === MY RESPONSE TO BERT COPY PASTE SECTION 1 ===
>> > In this example
>> > we assume the following: that UAPIX movements are exactly 2x the
>> movement of ^RUT
>> > (so there is exact 2x leverage between them). (Note that this
>> assumption may not be true in
>> > reality and is used for illustration purposes only)
>> >
>> > say UAPIX moves from 23.77 to 24.77 (+4.2%) and your initial
> equity
>> is
>> > 23770 so you purchase 1000 shares. Your profit is $1000 and
> percent
>> profit is +4.2%
>> >
>> > At the same time ^RUT moves 2.1% from 638.67 to 652.10.
>> > Now your cash amount is the same as in previous case 23770 but
> you
>> are on
>> > 50% margin so your buying power is twice as much 2*23770 = 47540.
>> > So you can purchase 74.4359 shares (for simplicity
>> > in the example we assume that fractional purchases are possible)
>> > Your dollar profit is (652.10-638.67) * 74.4359 = $1000 (approx
> due
>> to rounding) - the same
>> > as in first case.
>> >
>> > Your PERCENT profit is however:
>> > $1000 / $47540 = 2.1%
>> >
>> > This is so because in second case you had to buy shares for
> $47540
>> > while in first case you only spent $23770.
>> >
>> >
>> > If you want expectancy to be the same in both cases you should
> not
>> use
>> > percent profits but dollar profits instead.
>> >
>> >
>> > === MY RESPONSE TO BERT COPY PASTE SECTION 2 ===
>> >
>> >
>> > When you use leveraged instrument BOTH % profit and dollar
> profit
>> are twice
>> > because PERCENT is based on SMALLER EQUITY VALUE.
>> >
>> > ( 2 * DOLLAR GAIN ) / EQUITY = TWICE normal % profit
>> >
>> > If you use magin account PERCENT PROFIT is calculated from
> HIGHER
>> EQUITY VALUE.
>> > When use 50% margin account your EQUITY is TWICE your cash.
>> > So even if DOLLAR GAIN is twice, PERCENT GAIN is the SAME
> because
>> equity (buying power)
>> > is TWICE.
>> >
>> > ( 2 * DOLLAR GAIN ) / ( 2 * EQUITY ) = DOLLAR GAIN / EQUITY =
>> normal % profit
>> >
>> > This is so because on margin account you actually purchase TWICE
>> the original amount
>> > and your dollar profit is also twice as much. But those 2/2
> reduce
>> and % profit remains the same.
>> >
>> > If you are using leveraged instrument, things are quite
> different:
>> > you invest only HALF the amount you would invest on margin
> account,
>> yet dollar profits are the same.
>> > Hence percent profit is double.
>> >
>> > =====
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Tomasz Janeczko
>> > amibroker.com
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Fred Tonetti
>> > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 1:58 AM
>> > Subject: [amibroker] Re: AmiBroker Support
>> >
>> >
>> > Looks like the attachment didn't make it in the previous post .
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > TJ,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Really ? Maybe we don't understand the statistics . See the
>> attachment. Same system on both sides traded without margin on
> the
>> left, with margin on the right.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Should:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > - Avg Profit/Loss% in ALL TRADES Section
>> >
>> > - Avg Profit % in WINNERS Section
>> >
>> > - Max Trade% Drawdown
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > be the same ?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > If so can you please explain ?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks, Fred
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > = = = = = = = = = = =
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Follow up: I have made a check to verify your report about
> avg.
>> profit/loss
>> > and all I can say is that I can not confirm your observations.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Tomasz Janeczko
>> > amibroker.com
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Tomasz Janeczko" <amibroker@>
>> > To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 5:51 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [amibroker] Is AmiBroker Support on
> Vacation, "rude"
>> or what??
>> >
>> >
>> > > Hello,
>> > >
>> > > I have forwarded your message to Marcin for checking in
> detail.
>> > > One thing is sure that we do not "selectively decide" what
>> issues to respond
>> > to.
>> > >
>> > > I have quickly checked the issue you mentioned and you don't
>> ask any question
>> > in it.
>> > >
>> > > All I can see are some thoghts/observations.
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > > Tomasz Janeczko
>> > > amibroker.com
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "bistrader" <bistrader@>
>> > > To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 4:35 PM
>> > > Subject: [amibroker] Is AmiBroker Support on
> Vacation, "rude"
>> or what??
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >>I find it disturbing that AmiBroker Support selectively
> decides
>> what
>> > >> issues it wants to respond to. I have talked to several in
> our
>> > >> FastTrack group that send emails to AmiBroker Support and
> even
>> Tomasz
>> > >> asking for help. Oh sure, they get the standard message
> saying
>> that
>> > >> a response will be provided within 24 hours but they never
>> hear a
>> > >> thing on what they consider to be critical items. One might
>> ask, why
>> > >> is AmiBroker Support and even Tomasz being so selective in
>> what they
>> > >> repond to? I, for one, have no idea.
>> > >>
>> > >> I certainly hope that this does not continue. I really like
> the
>> > >> software and the response by AmiBroker prior to these
> string
>> of cases
>> > >> has been quite good.
>> > >>
>> > >> In any case, I hope it changes. I saw a message recently
> where
>> > >> someone on this board implied that someone else was being
>> rude. Is
>> > >> it "rude" when one tells you that a response will be
> provided
>> and
>> > >> none ever is? Is it "rude" when someone does not respond
> even
>> when
>> > >> repeated requests are made. I hope not. I would rather
> think
>> that
>> > >> he/she just got caught up in the moment. An oversight, if
> you
>> will.
>> > >>
>> > >> So, if interested, think about responding to request 22642
>> originally
>> > >> sent to AmiBroker on September 12th and then again on
> September
>> > >> 18th. Try to be nice as we should all practice what we
> preach.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>> ----------
>> >
>> > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
>> > It has removed 6178 spam emails to date.
>> > Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
>> > Try SPAMfighter for free now!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>> ----------
>> > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
>> > It has removed 6178 spam emails to date.
>> > Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
>> > Try SPAMfighter for free now!
>> >
>> >
>> > Please note that this group is for discussion between users
> only.
>> >
>> > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly
> to
>> > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
>> >
>> > For other support material please check also:
>> > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > SPONSORED LINKS Investment management software Real estate
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>> >
>> >
>> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
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>> ----------
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>> >
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>> >
>> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>> >
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>> of Service.
>> >
>> >
>> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>> ----------
>
>
>
>
>
> Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
>
> To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
>
> For other support material please check also:
> http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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