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Hello,
"Account balance" will show them the SAME because
it is PORTFOLIO equity and PORTFOLIO % profit.
Best regards,
Tomasz Janeczko
amibroker.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred" <ftonetti@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 6:11 PM
Subject: [amibroker] Re: AmiBroker Support
> Oh I know ... That suggests that there is no difference in %
> Gain/Loss regardless of whether or not margin is used. Most peoples
> account balances would tell them something quite different.
>
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Tomasz Janeczko" <amibroker@xxxx>
> wrote:
>> Yes, you are right and this is exactly the difference between
> _portfolio_ profit and
>> _trade_ profit in AmiBroker.
>>
>> _Portfolio_ % profit uses EQUITY (so it is subject to leverage) as
> base of calculations.
>> _Trade_ % profit uses entry value (#shares * price) as base of
> calculations.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Tomasz Janeczko
>> amibroker.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Fred" <ftonetti@xxxx>
>> To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:52 PM
>> Subject: [amibroker] Re: AmiBroker Support
>>
>>
>> > The definition of Equity is correct but the example was badly
>> > worded ...
>> >
>> > What I should have said was ... There is no additional EQUITY by
>> > utilizing additional buying power but investing the same dollar
>> > amount because although assets increase, liabilities do as well
> i.e.
>> > whether leverage is 1x or 100x, EQUITY is the same until market
>> > value changes. When market value changes EQUITY will be
> impacted
>> > 100x as much with leverage of 100x whether that be up or down.
>> >
>> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Fred" <ftonetti@xxxx> wrote:
>> >> I'd agree that buying power is twice, but NOT equity. Equity
> is
>> >> defined as the difference between the market value of a
> property
>> > and
>> >> the claims held against it. If this were not true then I could
>> > have
>> >> enjoyed having 10x the equity at the time of my last home
> purchase
>> > by
>> >> buying a home for 10x as much and taking out a mortgage that
> was
>> > 10x
>> >> as much.
>> >>
>> >> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Tomasz Janeczko"
>> > <amibroker@xxxx>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > [amibroker] Re: Script and Stockconsultant websiteHello,
>> >> >
>> >> > Just a few posts ago I think I expressed clearly what is
> needed
>> >> when contacting support:
>> >> > http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/message/86456
>> >> >
>> >> > Sending screenshot alone means nothing to me.
>> >> >
>> >> > Since you do NOT provide all necessary details (formula,
>> > settings)
>> >> that are needed to analyse
>> >> > the case you are giving me NO CHANCE to know what you have
> done
>> > to
>> >> obtain results.
>> >> >
>> >> > _ASSUMING_ that this is the same case as Bert reported
> earlier
>> >> (comparing results obtained
>> >> > with ^RUT with 50% margin with results obtained with UAPIX
>> > without
>> >> margin,
>> >> > I can say that numbers ARE correct.
>> >> >
>> >> > I can copy-paste response which I sent to him with exact
>> >> calculations explaining why:
>> >> >
>> >> > === MY RESPONSE TO BERT COPY PASTE SECTION 1 ===
>> >> > In this example
>> >> > we assume the following: that UAPIX movements are exactly 2x
> the
>> >> movement of ^RUT
>> >> > (so there is exact 2x leverage between them). (Note that
> this
>> >> assumption may not be true in
>> >> > reality and is used for illustration purposes only)
>> >> >
>> >> > say UAPIX moves from 23.77 to 24.77 (+4.2%) and your initial
>> > equity
>> >> is
>> >> > 23770 so you purchase 1000 shares. Your profit is $1000 and
>> > percent
>> >> profit is +4.2%
>> >> >
>> >> > At the same time ^RUT moves 2.1% from 638.67 to 652.10.
>> >> > Now your cash amount is the same as in previous case 23770
> but
>> > you
>> >> are on
>> >> > 50% margin so your buying power is twice as much 2*23770 =
> 47540.
>> >> > So you can purchase 74.4359 shares (for simplicity
>> >> > in the example we assume that fractional purchases are
> possible)
>> >> > Your dollar profit is (652.10-638.67) * 74.4359 = $1000
> (approx
>> > due
>> >> to rounding) - the same
>> >> > as in first case.
>> >> >
>> >> > Your PERCENT profit is however:
>> >> > $1000 / $47540 = 2.1%
>> >> >
>> >> > This is so because in second case you had to buy shares for
>> > $47540
>> >> > while in first case you only spent $23770.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > If you want expectancy to be the same in both cases you
> should
>> > not
>> >> use
>> >> > percent profits but dollar profits instead.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > === MY RESPONSE TO BERT COPY PASTE SECTION 2 ===
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > When you use leveraged instrument BOTH % profit and dollar
>> > profit
>> >> are twice
>> >> > because PERCENT is based on SMALLER EQUITY VALUE.
>> >> >
>> >> > ( 2 * DOLLAR GAIN ) / EQUITY = TWICE normal % profit
>> >> >
>> >> > If you use magin account PERCENT PROFIT is calculated from
>> > HIGHER
>> >> EQUITY VALUE.
>> >> > When use 50% margin account your EQUITY is TWICE your cash.
>> >> > So even if DOLLAR GAIN is twice, PERCENT GAIN is the SAME
>> > because
>> >> equity (buying power)
>> >> > is TWICE.
>> >> >
>> >> > ( 2 * DOLLAR GAIN ) / ( 2 * EQUITY ) = DOLLAR GAIN / EQUITY =
>> >> normal % profit
>> >> >
>> >> > This is so because on margin account you actually purchase
> TWICE
>> >> the original amount
>> >> > and your dollar profit is also twice as much. But those 2/2
>> > reduce
>> >> and % profit remains the same.
>> >> >
>> >> > If you are using leveraged instrument, things are quite
>> > different:
>> >> > you invest only HALF the amount you would invest on margin
>> > account,
>> >> yet dollar profits are the same.
>> >> > Hence percent profit is double.
>> >> >
>> >> > =====
>> >> >
>> >> > Best regards,
>> >> > Tomasz Janeczko
>> >> > amibroker.com
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: Fred Tonetti
>> >> > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 1:58 AM
>> >> > Subject: [amibroker] Re: AmiBroker Support
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Looks like the attachment didn't make it in the previous
> post .
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > TJ,
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Really ? Maybe we don't understand the statistics . See
> the
>> >> attachment. Same system on both sides traded without margin on
>> > the
>> >> left, with margin on the right.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Should:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > - Avg Profit/Loss% in ALL TRADES Section
>> >> >
>> >> > - Avg Profit % in WINNERS Section
>> >> >
>> >> > - Max Trade% Drawdown
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > be the same ?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > If so can you please explain ?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks, Fred
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > = = = = = = = = = = =
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Follow up: I have made a check to verify your report about
>> > avg.
>> >> profit/loss
>> >> > and all I can say is that I can not confirm your
> observations.
>> >> >
>> >> > Best regards,
>> >> > Tomasz Janeczko
>> >> > amibroker.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Tomasz Janeczko" <amibroker@>
>> >> > To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 5:51 PM
>> >> > Subject: Re: [amibroker] Is AmiBroker Support on
>> > Vacation, "rude"
>> >> or what??
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > > Hello,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I have forwarded your message to Marcin for checking in
>> > detail.
>> >> > > One thing is sure that we do not "selectively decide"
> what
>> >> issues to respond
>> >> > to.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I have quickly checked the issue you mentioned and you
> don't
>> >> ask any question
>> >> > in it.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > All I can see are some thoghts/observations.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Best regards,
>> >> > > Tomasz Janeczko
>> >> > > amibroker.com
>> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > > From: "bistrader" <bistrader@>
>> >> > > To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 4:35 PM
>> >> > > Subject: [amibroker] Is AmiBroker Support on
>> > Vacation, "rude"
>> >> or what??
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >>I find it disturbing that AmiBroker Support selectively
>> > decides
>> >> what
>> >> > >> issues it wants to respond to. I have talked to several
> in
>> > our
>> >> > >> FastTrack group that send emails to AmiBroker Support
> and
>> > even
>> >> Tomasz
>> >> > >> asking for help. Oh sure, they get the standard message
>> > saying
>> >> that
>> >> > >> a response will be provided within 24 hours but they
> never
>> >> hear a
>> >> > >> thing on what they consider to be critical items. One
> might
>> >> ask, why
>> >> > >> is AmiBroker Support and even Tomasz being so selective
> in
>> >> what they
>> >> > >> repond to? I, for one, have no idea.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> I certainly hope that this does not continue. I really
> like
>> > the
>> >> > >> software and the response by AmiBroker prior to these
>> > string
>> >> of cases
>> >> > >> has been quite good.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> In any case, I hope it changes. I saw a message recently
>> > where
>> >> > >> someone on this board implied that someone else was
> being
>> >> rude. Is
>> >> > >> it "rude" when one tells you that a response will be
>> > provided
>> >> and
>> >> > >> none ever is? Is it "rude" when someone does not respond
>> > even
>> >> when
>> >> > >> repeated requests are made. I hope not. I would rather
>> > think
>> >> that
>> >> > >> he/she just got caught up in the moment. An oversight,
> if
>> > you
>> >> will.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> So, if interested, think about responding to request
> 22642
>> >> originally
>> >> > >> sent to AmiBroker on September 12th and then again on
>> > September
>> >> > >> 18th. Try to be nice as we should all practice what we
>> > preach.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>> > ---
>> >> ----------
>> >> >
>> >> > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private
> users.
>> >> > It has removed 6178 spam emails to date.
>> >> > Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
>> >> > Try SPAMfighter for free now!
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>> > ---
>> >> ----------
>> >> > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private
> users.
>> >> > It has removed 6178 spam emails to date.
>> >> > Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
>> >> > Try SPAMfighter for free now!
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Please note that this group is for discussion between users
>> > only.
>> >> >
>> >> > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail
> directly
>> > to
>> >> > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
>> >> >
>> >> > For other support material please check also:
>> >> > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > SPONSORED LINKS Investment management software Real estate
>> >> investment software Investment property software
>> >> > Software support Real estate investment analysis
>> > software
>> >> Investment software
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>> > ---
>> >> ----------
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>> >> >
>> >> > a.. Visit your group "amibroker" on the web.
>> >> >
>> >> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> >> > amibroker-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >
>> >> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
>> > Terms
>> >> of Service.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>> > ---
>> >> ----------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
>> >
>> > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
>> > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
>> >
>> > For other support material please check also:
>> > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
>> >
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
>
> To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
>
> For other support material please check also:
> http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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