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Re: [amibroker] Re: Gartley Patten AFL



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Hello,
 

I have already wrote that accessing DAILY data in intraday 
database is OF COURSE POSSIBLE.
Use TimeFrame functions or just switch periodicity in AA 
Settings window to DAILY.
 
The fact that data on EOD eSignal server are different than 
time compressed data on intraday eSignal server
is NOT the problem of AmiBroker. This is because how exchanges 
report EOD data and actually
time-compressed intraday data provide ACCURATE picture - 
because they represent REAL trades that occured
during REAL trading session. 
And represent prices that your orders could actually be 
filled at.  
=======================================
 
Mixing data from eSignal daily and intraday servers would 
result in infinite confusion becuase
close at 16:00 would could be DIFFERENT depending what viewing 
interval you choose.
 
Also problems appear with OPEN price as it is NOT 
possible to trade exactly on open on certain exchanges.
For example on Nasdaq you can not place real "market on open" 
order
see for example:
<A 
href="">http://www.interactivebrokers.com/html/tradingInfo/orders/MarketOpenCloseOrdersSimulated.html
 
so you can not get filled at open (Market On Open orders are 
"simulated" on Nasdaq by placing market order within first 30 seconds of 
trading session)
Considering this what's the purpose of using EOD open when you 
can not get filled at this price.
Using real intraday data gives you much better robustness 
of your backtest (you can calculate for example the average
price of first 1 minute of trading and enter on that 
price)
 
And of course your system seems to be way to sensitive to be 
successful in real life if it yields so much different
results when daily prices differ by such small amounts. You 
should really add at least 0.2% for slippage to treat
the backtest with minimum amount of credibility.
Best regards,Tomasz 
Janeczkoamibroker.com
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
>
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  <DIV 
  >From: 
  Herman van den 
  Bergen 
  To: <A title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 4:06 
AM
  Subject: RE: [amibroker] Re: Real-Time 
  Trading System Examples
  
  In 
  simple situations you only have to run the EOD version once a day to 
  generate the table. <FONT 
  face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>But during development i work with different 
  systems and watchlists, so I may want to generate many different tradelists 
  during the day and i shuffle back and forth between EOD and RT.  
  
  <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2> 
  If 
  we could access both the RT and EOD database at the same time from the RT 
  version (Not possible right now) many problems would be solved. However there 
  are other reasons why creating a file with AA statistics and having a means to 
  read the Stats back would be handy....for example you could use two-pass 
  Backtests and use stats from the first pass in the second in Scoring and 
  PositionSize formulas, or plot the statistics from indicators, show complex 
  trade stats on the screen or in Interpretation windows from the chart, analyze 
  portfolio trades, etc. Remember that such a table offers a form of Persistent 
  memory that can be acessed by successive AA operations. 
  <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2> 
  I 
  have not had an occassion where i needed the EOD version to access the RT 
  version. 
  <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2> 
  <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2>h
  
    <FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----From: danielwardadams 
    [mailto:danielwardadams@xxxxxxxxx]Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 
    9:40 PMTo: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: 
    [amibroker] Re: Real-Time Trading System 
    ExamplesI've applied to the other list but can't 
    access it yet.Maybe it's apparent from what you say there but would 
    there be a need for simultaneous instances if you could access the EOD 
    database directly from an RT instance? If not, you could just run the 
    EOD version once a day to update the data. Does the EOD version ever 
    need to access the RT version for anything?Dan--- In 
    amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Herman van den Bergen" <psytek@xxxx> 
    wrote:> You may want to read my post on the DLL list> <A 
    href="">http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker-dll/message/1320> 
    > From my post you will see that I prefer two independent but 
    simultaeous,> AmiBroker instances (one RT and one EOD) so that 
    they can communicate with> each other. I would be quite happy to 
    run the EOD on one screen and run the> RT on another - as long as 
    my RT could access the EOD Signals and> Statistics.> > 
    I currently have a prototype running in this fashion, it requires 
    Exporting> the EOD tradelist to allow my RT code to read it. I 
    use String Manipulation> to parse the code, match dates, and fill 
    in my RT data with EOD> signals/prices. While running RT i use the 
    selected (or loop) date to> retrieve the relevant Row from the 
    TradeReport file. It works but is slow> and still buggie, I would 
    prefer a simple and fast DLL as outlined in my DLL> post. As you 
    can read there it would offer a variety of other attractive> 
    applications. With a little luck somebody with C-expertise will like 
    the> idea and write a DLL. Most of the work has already been done and 
    is> available from the public domain OSAKA C-Sourcecode in DLL 
    files.> > wrt the -at list, I gave up on Ninja because i found 
    it too highly> integrated with it's proprietary Entry/Exit 
    strategies. I prefer to do my> "own thing" using the simplest 
    possible API interface. There haven't been> many posts because 
    Tomasz may be offering Automated trading at some point,> it would 
    be unlikely for any parallel efforts to be competative in terms 
    of> features, reliability and delivery date.> > best 
    regards,> herman>   -----Original 
    Message----->   From: mrdavis9 
    [mailto:mrdavis9@xxxx]>   Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 5:23 
    PM>   To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>   
    Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re: Real-Time Trading System 
    Examples>   Importance: High> > 
    >   My post below was intended to encourage you to keep 
    this discussion> PUBLIC, and only use private emails where 
    necessary.   I won't have time to> study it in depth 
    till later.  However, I am saving all automated trading> 
    discussions that I see in an Outlook Express folder entitled 
    AUTOMATED> TRADING.   I don't have a lot of saved 
    messages yet, but I have copied one> here as an example of what I 
    am saving, I saw this on the Ninja Trader yahoo> group.  I 
    stopped watching their discussions awhile back.  Ron 
    D>   
    ==================================================================> 
    >   I've taken 5 systems which I was using to trade 
    manually, changed>   them so they can run without me, 
    backtested them on IRT until I'm>   happy with them and set 
    them off live.> >   Expectancy (based on (Pw * Aw)- 
    (Pl * Al) where P = probability, A =>   Average, w = 
    win and l = loss) ranges from 1.8 to 2.7 and R/R from>   
    2.4 to 6.1. Percent wins range from 38% to 52% in the 
    backtest>   period. All systems use a variety of indicators 
    (CCI, FASTD and>   custom indicators mostly) and multiple 
    time frames.> >   The single most important factor 
    in improving backtested performance>   turned out to be 
    identifying conditions in longer timeframes which>   lead 
    to poor results and modifying the scans to prevent trading 
    when>   those conditions apply. With some scans this 
    results in very few>   trades (15 or 20 per quarter) so 
    backtest results are statistically>   dubious and, as 
    backtesting itself is not a 100% representation of>   what 
    will happen in real life, I will hold off buying the yacht 
    for>   the timebeing.> >   
    ========================================================>     
    ----- Original Message ----->     From: 
    dingo>     To: 
    amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>     Sent: Sunday, 
    April 11, 2004 1:49 PM>     Subject: RE: 
    [amibroker] Re: Real-Time Trading System Examples> > 
    >     I posted some code (vbScript) to export the 
    trade list under some> circumstances - look back using this 
    thread subject.> >     d> > 
    > > 
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------->       
    From: mrdavis9 
    [mailto:mrdavis9@xxxx]>       Sent: 
    Sunday, April 11, 2004 2:38 PM>       
    To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>       
    Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re: Real-Time Trading System Examples> 
    > >       I am also interested 
    in the subject of this thread.  Ron 
    D>         ----- Original 
    Message ----->         From: 
    danielwardadams>         To: 
    amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>         
    Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 1:30 
    PM>         Subject: 
    [amibroker] Re: Real-Time Trading System Examples> > 
    >         Herman & 
    dingo,>         I'd also be 
    interested in anything you come up with. I want to 
    solve>         the same 
    problem as you Herman. Hope you're making better 
    progress>         than me 
    though ...> >         
    Dan> > 
    >         --- In 
    amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "dingo" <dingo@xxxx> 
    wrote:>         > 
    sounds neat.  I'll contact you off-line to work up some 
    specs.>         
    >>         > 
    d>         
    >>         
    >>         
    >   
    _____>         
    >>         > From: 
    Herman van den Bergen 
    [mailto:psytek@xxxx]>         
    > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:51 
    PM>         > To: 
    amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>         
    > Subject: RE: [amibroker] Real-Time Trading System 
    Examples>         
    >>         
    >>         > Anytime 
    you are ready, if you write the code for the 
    tradelist>         export 
    I'll>         > share 
    whatever afl I turn out to read the file from RT 
    :-)>         > I have the 
    basics working and hope to finish it over the 
    weekend.>         It is 
    kind>         > of neat 
    you just click anywhere on the RT chart and see all the> 
    EOD>         > particulars 
    in the RT Interpretation window :-) still have to 
    do>         the 
    date>         > 
    matching...>         
    >>         > 
    h>         
    >>         
    >>         
    >>         > 
    -----Original 
    Message----->         > 
    From: dingo 
    [mailto:dingo@xxxx]>         
    > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:37 
    PM>         > To: 
    amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>         
    > Subject: RE: [amibroker] Real-Time Trading System 
    Examples>         > 
    Importance: High>         
    >>         
    >>         > Your 
    BTW  is EXACTLY what I was going to 
    suggest.>         
    >>         > I'll work 
    you up something to do the exporting (and little 
    bit>         more). 
    How>         > soon do you 
    need it?>         
    >>         > 
    d>         
    >>         
    >>         
    >>         
    >   
    _____>         
    >>         > From: 
    Herman van den Bergen 
    [mailto:psytek@xxxx]>         
    > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:13 
    PM>         > To: 
    amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>         
    > Subject: RE: [amibroker] Real-Time Trading System 
    Examples>         
    >>         
    >>         > 
    InLine...>         
    >>         > 
    -----Original 
    Message----->         > 
    From: dingo 
    [mailto:dingo@xxxx]>         
    > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 7:49 
    PM>         > To: 
    amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>         
    > Subject: RE: [amibroker] Real-Time Trading System 
    Examples>         > 
    Importance: High>         
    >>         
    >>         > I'm still 
    trying to get my head around what approach you're> 
    wanting>         to 
    take.>         
    >>         > Are you 
    going to use EOD data and formula to produce your 
    buy>         
    signals?>         > Yes, 
    because they are more accurate than RT signals - for what i> 
    am>         
    doing.>         
    >>         > Or are you 
    going to use Realtime data and another formula to do> 
    your>         > 
    entries?>         > 
    Yes.>         
    >>         > Are you 
    going to use Realtime data and formula to 
    manage>         stops/exits 
    for>         > open 
    positions?>         > 
    Yes.>         
    >>         > If that's 
    the case then you won't need to mix your databases 
    and>         your 
    EOD>         > formula can 
    be separate from the realtime formula, 
    right?>         > Indeed, 
    but only in real trading, the problem is that I need 
    to>         > 
    develop&optimize the RT components with backtesting. How would 
    I>         optimize 
    my>         > RT stops 
    over historical data if I don't have access to the 
    EOD>         
    signals,>         > stock 
    picks, scores, shares, and trade-prices in my formula? 
    All>         these 
    are>         > based on 
    EOD data and can not be calculated accurately in 
    RT.>         
    >>         > I assume 
    you have the EOD formula that generates the buys 
    working>         > 
    satisfactorily?>         > 
    Yes, but is is price sensitive and gets all confused dealing 
    with> >         
    things>         > like -17 
    to +30 cts RT volatility/noise of the OHLC Prices 
    (AAPL).>         
    >>         > If you are 
    going to use a formula to manage your stops/exits 
    have>         you 
    been>         > able to 
    complete this or is this the question that you're 
    asking?>         > 
    There are many formulas and i haven't decided which to use, 
    My>         system 
    must>         > first work 
    with EOD performance in an RT 
    environment.>         
    >>         > Assuming 
    you have a formula to manage those stops/exits - have 
    you>         
    worked>         > out a 
    way to trigger the 
    trade?>         > 
    NO.>         
    >>         > I believe 
    you mentioned that Ninja Trader wasn't the answer.  
    Is>         this 
    a>         > piece you're 
    asking about as 
    well?>         > Not now, 
    waiting for TJ to introduce automation... i still 
    have>         work to 
    do>         > and hope to 
    be ready when TJ 
    is...>         
    >>         > Lots of 
    questions, eh?>         > 
    Not really; I have a lot more 
    :-)>         
    >>         > I'm asking 
    because I'm headed in that direction as well - just 
    not>         as 
    ready>         > as you 
    are right now.>         > 
    Let me know how things work out for you... and what path you> 
    decide>         
    on.>         
    >>         > BTW, today 
    I thought of another approach, a brute force 
    method>         alright 
    but>         > it might 
    work. I simply export the entire EOD trade list and 
    read>         it 
    from>         > the RT 
    code. For each RT date I look up the matching EOD row in> 
    the>         
    Trade>         > list, I 
    then extract whatever information i need. Tried it, It 
    is>         
    actually>         > faster 
    than i expected. All i need now is an automatic Export 
    at>         the end 
    of>         > my EOD 
    backtest ;-) any 
    ideas?>         
    >>         > 
    h>         
    >>         > 
    TIA>         
    >>         > 
    d>         
    >>         
    >>         
    >   
    _____>         
    >>         > From: 
    Herman van den Bergen 
    [mailto:psytek@xxxx]>         
    > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 12:01 
    PM>         > To: 
    amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>         
    > Subject: RE: [amibroker] Real-Time Trading System 
    Examples>         
    >>         
    >>         > [d]Or are 
    you trying to take an EOD system and trying to make 
    your>         
    system>         > "more 
    granular" and pick the same patterns in intraday 
    data?>         
    >>         > I am 
    mainly trying to improve Entries and Exits, i am not 
    looking>         
    for>         > patterns. 
    The systems work fine in EOD but I observed on the 
    RT>         charts 
    that>         > i often 
    miss locking in some really nice profits that fade before> 
    I>         exit. 
    So>         > i want to 
    code in Trailing stops that activate at a certain 
    profit>         and 
    than>         > exit when 
    the price drops back a bit. For example, if my 
    profits>         reaches 
    2%>         > during the 
    first two hours of the trade, then i want to activate 
    a>         Stop 
    and>         > exit when 
    my profits drop back to 1.5%. ApplyStops cannot be 
    used>         in 
    very>         > short-term 
    (1-3 days) trading because on the day of exit it 
    is>         unknown 
    which>         > came 
    first, the High or the Low, or with profit stops, how 
    many>         dips 
    there>         > were 
    during the day that would have terminated the trade. RT 
    data>         is 
    needed>         > to 
    develop proper stops. limits, etc. with the short trades i 
    use.>         
    >>         > If i trade 
    1-3 times a week and i might be able to reduce 
    my>         exposure by 
    50%>         > if I 
    managed to get out based on profits instead of timing. I> 
    would>         
    prefer>         > overall 
    less profits if it came with less exposure. Also, 
    the>         strength 
    of>         > signals 
    fades pretty fast... have you ever tested your 
    n-Bar>         profits? 
    i.e.>         > profits 
    made on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd day? You can vary the 
    entry>         delay 
    and>         > use n-Bar 
    stops to limit the trade duration, that way 
    you>         can 
    "isolated">         > 
    single days (profits) of your trade. For me, typical 
    profit>         
    distributions>         > 
    might be 65% 25% 10% for a system with an average of 3-bar 
    trades.>         So 
    the>         > first day 
    obviously has the greatest profit potential at the 
    least>         
    exposure.>         > IMHO, 
    short term signals have a limited life-time: after a 
    certain>         number 
    of>         > days you are 
    just hoping to get lucky :-) knowing your 
    n-Bar>         profits 
    may>         > help you 
    decide whether it is worth it (risk) to stay in a trade> 
    or>         
    not.>         
    >>         > [d] IMHO 
    you are in un-charted waters as far as AB 
    goes.>         
    >>         > We got 
    some smart cookies on this list, I just can't believe 
    that>         nobody 
    is>         > working on 
    this; it appears the obvious way to keep your EOD> 
    system>         
    working>         > now 
    that RT trading is catching on. So I hope you are wrong on> 
    this>         one 
    :-)>         
    >>         > 
    h>         
    >>         > 
    -----Original 
    Message----->         > 
    From: dingo 
    [mailto:dingo@xxxx]>         
    > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 11:21 
    AM>         > To: 
    amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>         
    > Subject: RE: [amibroker] Real-Time Trading System 
    Examples>         > 
    Importance: High>         
    >>         
    >>         > IMHO you 
    are in un-charted waters as far as AB 
    goes.>         
    >>         > Are you 
    trying to come up with a system to do backtesting with 
    or>         one 
    to>         > monitor 
    trades / manage stops for real-time trading?  Or are 
    you>         trying 
    to>         > take an EOD 
    system and trying to make your system "more 
    granular">         and 
    pick>         > the same 
    patterns in intraday 
    data?>         
    >>         > 
    d>         
    >>         
    >>         
    >   
    _____>         
    >>         > From: 
    Herman van den Bergen 
    [mailto:psytek@xxxx]>         
    > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 11:14 
    AM>         > To: 
    AmiBroker 
    YahooGroups>         > 
    Subject: [amibroker] Real-Time Trading System 
    Examples>         
    >>         
    >>         > Would 
    anybody have some example code for Real Time trading> 
    systems?>         I 
    have>         > 
    considerable trouble converting EOD systems to RT data - tried 
    too>         many 
    ways>         > to mention 
    but always hit a snag at some advanced point. My> 
    problem>         
    areas>         > 
    are:>         
    >>         > 1) 
    Converting or duplicating EOD signals to RT, I need this> 
    because>         EOD 
    data>         > prices are 
    more accurate than those I get from RT 
    sources.>         > 2) 
    Running the basic EOD system in RT, i.e. reproduce EOD 
    signals>         in RT. 
    I>         > want this as 
    a verification stage before trying to enhance 
    the>         system 
    with>         > RT 
    data>         > 3) Custom 
    coding Profit targets, Limit Prices and 
    Stops.>         > 4) 
    Optimizing entry points by using Pre/after hours trading 
    and/or>         
    using>         > 
    delayed/early entries and 
    exits.>         > 5) 
    Showing EOD Arrows (derived from EOD data, not from RT data) 
    on>         my 
    minute>         > 
    charts.>         
    >>         > If anybody 
    has example code or reference URLs to share that 
    would>         be 
    much>         > 
    appreciated.>         
    >>         > Also, i am 
    beginning to wonder how many subscribers, if any, 
    have>         
    actually>         > solved 
    the above problems. If you have done so perhaps you 
    can>         share 
    this>         > simple 
    fact (no code needed), knowing that it has been 
    done>         
    successfully is>         > 
    a great motivator 
    :-)>         
    >>         > TIA and 
    best regards,>         > 
    herman.>         
    >>         
    >>         
    >>         
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    Groups Links>         
    >>         
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Send BUG REPORTS to bugs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Send SUGGESTIONS to suggest@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----------------------------------------
Post AmiQuote-related messages ONLY to: amiquote@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
(Web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amiquote/messages/)
--------------------------------------------
Check group FAQ at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/files/groupfaq.html








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