RE: [RT] Time to end hedge funds?, RealTraders Email List Archive

All that is entirely true.

But greed magnified things. Greed when Congressmen took contributions from FNMA/FRE and prevented regulation. Greed when Franklin Raines took home $400M to do the easy thing by lowering credit standards at FNMA at the behest of Bill Clinton to further implement Community Investment Act (thus buying votes). Greed when Wall Street created all kinds of financial derivatives to hedge FNMA/FREs interest rate risk on trillions of dollars of mortgage loans. Greed when mortgage originators pushed the paperwork of prospective homeowners to the approval limits to earn their origination points. Greed when homeowners believed they could flip a house and become a millionaire overnight. Greed when real estate agents that told prospective homeowners that “real estate will ALWAYS increase in value.”

Government created and fostered the environment of this pyramid. But everyone, except us stupid ones that didn’t borrow, are complicit. I’m just standing over here on my salvage tug, watching the Titanic hit the iceberg.

From: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bobh
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:07 AM
To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [RT] Time to end hedge funds?

With all due respect I think you and Robert are missing the boat on where the ultimate responsibility lies for this debacle. It isn't hedge funds or investment banks although the latter has certainly played a role (and I don't miss them either) - it's government pure and simple.

And it began back in 1999 when gov't via FNM/FRE decided to "ease" credit to increase mortgage lending under the guise of "affordable housing" which is just politically correct code for welfare.....http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260.

Then we had welfare benefits being classified as 'income', activist groups like ACORN getting involved, attempts to reform FNM/FRE blocked by current Congressional leaders (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63) etc. etc. which resulted in trillions of dollars of these so called "ninja" loans - no job, no income, no assets - being made to people who should have never received a $1 of credit let alone a mortgage.

There is a huge amount of additional resources on the web that delve into the gory details for those interested but either way, and you can call me silly, I don't see how MBS, CDS, CDO, SIV's etc., etc. ever come into existence without these loans.

----- Original Message -----

From: Jeff

To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:35 PM

Subject: RE: [RT] Time to end hedge funds?

The moment the US Government decided to the intervention of financial markets in various forms, including the ban of short selling; this is the moment they close out the door for good for capitalism in the US; and the once so dearly trusted financial market mechanism in the US will be forever tarnished as a free financial market; I thought these kind of actions being taken by the US government could only be happened in countries like the Philippines and the Philippines Stock Exchange. No one with right mind will touch the PSE with a ten foot pole as market manipulations and insiders trading are well known over there. As a non-US citizen, I would like to see these crooked ‘self important’ wealth managers and CEOs put behind bars. And most importantly, the trust between the investors and these so called ‘professional investment experts’; between the market participants and the US financial markets took a heavy blow from this mess and it will take years before confidence and trust can be restored. For years, I have been telling people over here the so called structured products are another word for ‘garbage’; and for years, these people continued to get conned into buying these ‘products’ by unethical and totally unprofessional bankers. And now, over here, they want the government to pay them back in full of their total losses in mini bonds issued by Lehman Brothers. Who’s to blame?, not the government over here, not the ordinary people on the streets, but definitely the whole crooked culture of investment banking must take full responsibility for it. And I’m glad to see the world of investment banking is a goner for good.

From: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Robert Arbuckle
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:40 AM
To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [RT] Time to end hedge funds?

We are definetely moving in that direction and I suspect that after the election, we will be at the end of our trip.

As to hedge funds being 2 tril, the last figure I saw that seemed reliable was 6 tril and these funds are leveraged

50-1 .. That is sufficient to take out any firm or, for that matter, any government! All with no regulation or over-sight or moral obligations for lives ruined or pensions and retirement destroyed. I predict that hedge funds will be the next calamity on the horizon. Like the financial derivities the banks used which were too complicated for the Fed to understand, the hedge funds are doing trading the Fed can't fathom so they just look the other way.

Bob

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:26 PM, Mark Simms <marksimms@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

All of this government bail-out action as well as this "blame game" going on in Washington....

has a distinct "stake into the heart" of capitalism feel to it.

Could we be witnessing the end of Capitalism in America right now ?

Is this the final blow...the one that will make us become like those of our French bretheren ?

From: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Fulks
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 6:20 PM
To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [RT] Time to end hedge funds?

At 04:57 PM 10/7/2008, Robert Arbuckle wrote:

I believe in an open and freely operating market but no one envisioned a whole lot of wealthy people pooling their money together to push the markets where they wanted them to go to the benefit of those limited investors. Not only doing that but doing nearly everything with no public over-sight or reporting.

Last time I checked (about a year ago), hedge funds were a mere $2 trillion vs. about $60 trillion in all investments so it is hard to believe that they are causing this damage.

I suspect that the real culprit will turn out to be the public yanking their money out of the market and money market funds and I don't blame them... Who wants to go down with the ship...

Bob Fulks

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___