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With all due respect I think you and Robert are
missing the boat on where the ultimate responsibility lies for this
debacle. It isn't hedge funds or investment banks although the latter has
certainly played a role (and I don't miss them either) - it's government pure
and simple.
Then we had welfare benefits being classified as
'income', activist groups like ACORN getting involved, attempts to reform
FNM/FRE blocked by current Congressional leaders (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63)
etc. etc. which resulted in trillions of dollars of these so called "ninja"
loans - no job, no income, no assets - being made to people who should have
never received a $1 of credit let alone a mortgage.
There is a huge amount of additional
resources on the web that delve into the gory details for those interested
but either way, and you can call me silly, I don't see how MBS, CDS,
CDO, SIV's etc., etc. ever come into existence without these
loans.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:35
PM
Subject: RE: [RT] Time to end hedge
funds?
The moment the US
Government decided to the intervention of financial markets in various forms,
including the ban of short selling; this is the moment they close out the door
for good for capitalism in the US; and the once so dearly trusted financial
market mechanism in the US will be forever tarnished as a free financial
market; I thought these kind of actions being taken by the US government
could only be happened in countries like the Philippines and the Philippines
Stock Exchange. No one with right mind will touch the PSE with a ten
foot pole as market manipulations and insiders trading are well known over
there. As a non-US citizen, I would like to see these crooked ?self
important? wealth managers and CEOs put behind bars. And most importantly, the
trust between the investors and these so called ?professional investment
experts?; between the market participants and the US financial markets took a
heavy blow from this mess and it will take years before confidence and trust
can be restored. For years, I have been telling people over here the so
called structured products are another word for ?garbage?; and for years,
these people continued to get conned into buying these ?products? by unethical
and totally unprofessional bankers. And now, over here, they want the
government to pay them back in full of their total losses in mini bonds issued
by Lehman Brothers. Who?s to blame?, not the government over here, not
the ordinary people on the streets, but definitely the whole crooked culture
of investment banking must take full responsibility for it. And I?m glad
to see the world of investment banking is a goner for good.
From:
realtraders@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:realtraders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Arbuckle
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:40
AM
To:
realtraders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RT] Time to end hedge
funds?
We are definetely moving in that direction and I
suspect that after the election, we will be at the end of our trip.
As to hedge funds being 2 tril, the last figure I saw
that seemed reliable was 6 tril and these funds are leveraged
50-1 .. That is sufficient to take out any firm or,
for that matter, any government! All with no regulation or over-sight or
moral obligations for lives ruined or pensions and retirement destroyed.
I predict that hedge funds will be the next calamity on the horizon.
Like the financial derivities the banks used which were too complicated
for the Fed to understand, the hedge funds are doing trading the
Fed can't fathom so they just look the other way.
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:26 PM, Mark Simms <marksimms@xxxxxxxxnet>
wrote:
All of this
government bail-out action as well as this "blame game" going on in
Washington....
has a distinct
"stake into the heart" of capitalism feel to it.
Could we be
witnessing the end of Capitalism in America right now
?
Is this the final
blow...the one that will make us become like those of our French
bretheren ?
From: realtraders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:realtraders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Fulks
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 6:20
PM
To: realtraders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RT] Time to end hedge
funds?
At 04:57 PM 10/7/2008, Robert Arbuckle
wrote:
I believe in an open and freely
operating market but no one envisioned a whole lot of wealthy people
pooling their money together to push the markets where they wanted them to
go to the benefit of those limited investors. Not only doing that
but doing nearly everything with no public over-sight or reporting.
Last time I checked (about a year
ago), hedge funds were a mere $2 trillion vs. about $60 trillion in all
investments so it is hard to believe that they are causing this damage.
I suspect that the real culprit will turn out to be the public
yanking their money out of the market and money market funds and I don't
blame them... Who wants to go down with the ship...
Bob
Fulks
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