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There is more wisdom in Ira's statement
then almost anything else I have seen on this list for years. I made almost all
these points with a perspective student just yesterday. Most people on these
list do not want to think and analyze, they want a simple indicator to tell them
what to do.
I believe the most important thing this list
can contribute is education yet I have little confidence that an organization
around education would succeed. I remember years ago Eddie Kwong tried to
segment the group into interest areas with a leader for each segment. The
experiment failed miserably.
Regarding the advertisement issue, I would
recommend that identification of educational services be allowed on the list but
that vendors selling systems and indicators WITHOUT educational material
be filtered out. One way that the list could move to a more educational approach
is to require that anyone offering a forecast, or opinion of the market include
a short description of the theory behind the opinion AND a follow-up discussion
of how it turned out. This may be difficult to enforce but the list members
could demand it.
Regards,
Jim White
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:56
PM
Subject: Re: [RT] Re: Advertising
At one time this list had a couple of people who
were into ridicule of almost everyone that had something to say or
contribute. That turned me off for quite a while and at times I am still
hesitant to post. I don't need it and some others who have knowledge to
pass on were turned off also. Like most groups on the net there are
a very few members that contribute and the rest just lurk.
There are those that troll for names to solicit
and there are others that seek nothing but to take and not contribute.
There are certain posts that I will respond to if I see something different
and feel that it might help. Most posts I just ignore.
I have posted several projections on this list
that have come to pass. I have seen Ben stick his neck out on numerous occasions as well as Clyde and some
others. I don't trade very often any more. I have been retired for
over 20 years. But the markets are worse then a drug and the fascination
with the markets still holds my curiosity and attention. I have used the
same system for over 30 years and never had to change or adjust it. I
didn't re-invent the wheel or unearth the Holy Grail. Everything that
you need to win in the markets is out there and has been there for 30 years or
more.
Most people on these lists are seeking a
free lunch. I don't blame them, I feel sorry for them as most of them
will go through their money and be no better off then when they started.
How many of you have blown your capitol, saved up and tried again and failed,
and so on. This is a business like any other. 95% of all start-up
businesses fail. The reason. The people that start them don't know
how to run a business. Is trading any different? You can blame
everyone for your failure, but it is no ones fault but yours. You
go to years of school to learn a profession and then you intern in
order to become proficient at, it rather then just school smart. Yet you
expect to become a good trader and make a living just because you have several
thousand dollars to put into an account or because you were successful in your
present business or profession. If you were a successful lawyer and made
tons of money would you expect to be able to walk into an operating room and
do brain surgery because you read a book and got some information on a medical
web site. I don't think so, yet you feel that you can become a
successful trader by doing exactly that.
Have any of you set down what you want a system
to provide you? Profit isn't the answer to the question. Have any
of you laid out a business plan or risk analysis for a money management
system? Have any of you bothered to find out what an indicator is
supposed to do and why the numbers used are important? Have any of you
done anything other then grab a gem here and there and figure that over time
you will figure it all out because are smart and successful in your current
position? This is a business like any other. You buy inventory and
then you try to sell it at a higher price or you sell it first and try to buy
it back later at a cheaper price. Like any other business if you buy
wrong you lose. To buy right you have to understand what you are buying
and whether the system that you are using says you will be able to do
so. If you were running a regular business you would look cost of
inventory, a rate of return and cash flow to mention just a couple of
things. Instead most are looking to ride one big winner into the sunset.
I am sorry about getting carried away, but every
now and then I guess one just has to speak out. Have a good week
all. Ira.
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 8:32
PM
Subject: Re: [RT] Re: Advertising
I have never belonged to this group when it was active, and
frankly think I missed out. While other lists that I have been
associated with seem to grow and flourish, this one seems to be stuck.
Really unfortunate for those like me who are still the neophytes, the
unwashed beginners (and some of us take a very long time to become
relatively proficient). And I value the input to this list when it
does arrive; for me I try to glean what nuggets appear. So I thank
those who do take the time to do so like Ben, Earl, you Bob, Clyde, Ira,
when he does. Those whom come to mind at the moment. And I know
there is a lot of wisdom, knowledge, and talent represented in this
membership.
So what has caused the die off? I have never felt
that has been flaming or trashing anyone's posting.
What would cause
anyone to become more active?
As of this moment there are 942
members. Why are we all hanging around? Why the large membership
that does not post? What does the membership want to see here?
As far as advertising is concerned: I really get annoyed by
overt, blatant postings. I don't care much if what is posted is
related to a discussion or in response to query.
Bob, when it does
surface, there is generally enough bitching at the poster to at least bring
it to your attention and you can act on it however you are inclined. I
am with what John seems to be stating that a relative standard could be
applied rather than an absolute one.
Some
thoughts,
Dan
BobsKC wrote:
I am in favor of invigorating the list as much as you are
John. I will do anything the membership wants to do but it
will take some convincing to cause me to believe that a majority of our
members want to see any type of advertising on this list or that the list
would be somehow better with such content. I do waive this rule at
the end of each year for the week between Christmas and New Years so our
members who wish to, can state what they offer and how to access those
services or products but how a steady flow of such information would
improve the quality or animation of the list escapes me.
This list
doesn't belong to me or anyone. It belongs to all of you and if you
want unrestricted advertising on our list, let me know and if I hear from
50.1% of you that this is what you want, I'll drop that restriction.
Bob
At 06:08 PM 9/26/2005, you wrote:
Bob:
While I in
general support the prohibition on advertising, I thought Tim’s post was
made within the proper context for usefulness. Perhaps zero
tolerance is just a little too oppressive. It is my opinion, and
my opinion only, that the quality of the discussion has evaporated over
the last several years. Perhaps a little leeway on this
issue, in a contextual basis, would help invigorate the group and
discussion a little. It is just a suggestion in the spirit of Real
Traders sharing their experiences.
Regards,
John J.
Lothian
From: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[
mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of jim
thompson
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 3:12
PM
To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject:
[RT] Re: Advertising
I'm wondering Bob why we have
that policy regarding advertising. Was that something the list members
voted on or just the moderator decided on it or just how did that come
into being? You're right in that I believe the vast majority do
not want this forum to be a place where we get inundated with tons of
spam advertising. But I'm sure on the other hand many listers would be
very interested in what Ira, Ben, Tim et al have to offer. I for one am
always on a continual quest to be 'educated' and I'm willing to pay for
it. Certainly we can contact them offline to find out what each has to
offer, but, likewise, often we have no idea someone has something to
offer unless they 'mention' it here. I, for one, found Tim's post very
innocuous and appreciated him letting us know 'he's back' and how to get
a hold of him and what he has to offer. The majority of spam
advertisers we've seemed to have here have been the one time blatantly
hit and disappear type. Maybe some leniency could be available to
listers who have been on the forum say for a year+, or who have posted X
number of times or something similar. jt
- From: BobsKC <bobskc@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Subject: Advertising
- I have sent two direct mails to the offenders of our no
advertising
- policy in the past week warning them about violations of this
- rule. I remind everyone again that this list has zero
tolerance for
- ignoring this policy and after having sent this out, I will now
- remove anyone who violates this policy without notice.
Simply put,
- do not mention or brag or talk about your services or products or
- anyone else's services or products on this list unless said
products
- or services are totally free without enhanced, charged services or
products.
- Bob
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