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"Eventually some traders do get around to examining this area of trading
when
> they can't seem to get it together after years of trying or perhaps they
> just want to polish up one aspect of their already sucessful trading".
Or if they ever get around to actually trading.
----- Original Message -----
From: "BobR" <bobrabcd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [RT] Immune Response
> One
> trader on this list loaned me a set of audio tapes from a $3,000 psych
> seminar. The psych's personal experience and thesis was the mkt was
> entirely random and it could change direction immediately after putting on
a
> trade. Must have taken too many hits. Early in the seminar one of the
> students asked him if he still traded, and after a pause the answer was
no.
> At least he was honest. He would rather take $3,000 from ten people in a
2
> or 3 day session than risk trading. Can't criticise him for that since he
> found his niche and that is what its about. The seminar continued, but I
> have yet to get through these tapes and keep falling asleep. Back in 1992
> when I retired(not from trading) at age 50 I had time to wander a bit and
> had the good fortune of living with a female psychiatrist for a year.
Each
> morning I would jump out of bed an hour before the mkt opened and prepare
> for the day. Then I would go into the next room where the old mac IIfx
and
> win 3.0 with TrendSetter and MSrt or TS3.0 were and traded for an hour and
a
> half. When she discovered it was possible to make more money in 7.5 hours
> of work than in 30 days of prescibing meds to prison inmates, she
concluded
> that something was wrong with me! Her goal was to "cure" me whether I
> wanted it or not. One morning on a walk past the nearby bird sanctuary I
> asked her if a psychiatrist could be her own therapist. Of course it was
a
> loaded question as I thought she was loony as hell, and so did most of the
> neighborhood. Her answer, after a pause, psychs like to pause, was "No".
> It really was an interesting and unforgettable year of my life.
>
> bobr
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DanC" <danc@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 9:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [RT] Immune Response
>
>
> > With the charter of the list being the discussion of TA, systems, market
> > analysis, trading techniques, etc., and with the occupancy of the list
> (at
> > least with the prominent contributors) being experienced and veterans of
> the
> > fray, I would be surprised to see anything more than, at best,
disinterest
> in
> > the psy. side of trading life. Somewhat akin to demanding blood sausage
> in a
> > vegan restaurant.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob Heisler wrote:
> >
> > > Actually Ric does have a point in the beginning of his post. If you
> start a
> > > thread involving some new code, indicator/oscillator or some other
> squiggly
> > > line then your inbox will get flooded with responses. If on the other
> hand
> > > you start a thread on any psychological aspect of trading or something
> to do
> > > with trade management/money management then the thread ususally dies
> almsot
> > > immediately.
> > >
> > > This is something I have always found interesting because in my
> experience
> > > it's what you do once in the market that ultimately determines your
> success,
> > > not what got you in the market.
> > >
> > > I don't agree with the conclusions that Ric draws on why this happens,
> but
> > > his obsevartion of its occurence is right on.
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Tom Bowen
> > > To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 1:07 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [RT] Immune Response
> > >
> > > Norman,
> > >
> > > As usual you are dead on the money. Congratulations for being correct
> and
> > > not being afraid to call it like you see it.
> > > I have routed all of Ric's ramblings to the delete bin via message
rules
> > > however reading your response and Ric's original rambling and raving
> > > included in the thread has me rolling on the floor. He is
entertaining
> but
> > > offers absolutely no value whatsoever to the world in general. I
> originally
> > > attempted to communicate with Ric and he did exactly what you indicate
> in
> > > your response (refused to listen). Then I realized that he is not
> trying to
> > > help anyone or accomplish anything constructive. He is using this
forum
> as
> > > a means of entertainment. He rambles on about nothing to bait people
on
> the
> > > forum into responding to him. The variety of the responses and the
> ability
> > > to generate disputes among list members is his warped idea of
> entertainment.
> > > My experience has been that if you ignore people like this they
> eventually
> > > go away because when no one responds to them the entertainment value
of
> > > their original intent is lost and their efforts are no longer
rewarding
> or
> > > entertaining. You stand head and shoulders above him in integrity and
> in
> > > your ability to garner the respect of others so just ignore him and
> route
> > > his meaningless meanderings to the delete bin. You have far more
value
> to
> > > offer this list than he so please don't let him bother you.
> > >
> > > God Bless and best wishes in all your future endeavors,
> > > Tom
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Norman Winski
> > > To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 9:44 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [RT] Immune Response
> > >
> > > Ric,
> > >
> > > Hypocrisy is preaching to a group about being a good listener and then
> > > refusing to listen to what that group says to you.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Norman
> > >
> > > P.S. I don't expect you to pay any heed to this. I only posted to
share
> the
> > > amusing irony of the moment.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "ric ingram" <ringram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 9:49 PM
> > > Subject: [RT] Immune Response
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > If a new thread is started on some obscure aspect of technical
> analysis,
> > > > this is OK, will often be built upon, and will not get any
accusations
> of
> > > > introducing an out of the blue topic.
> > > >
> > > > If a new thread on some psychological related topic is started -
> > > > immediately an host of people will rush forward to reject the
foreign
> > > body,
> > > > like an immune response.
> > > >
> > > > It suggests that what a vocal group of people on this forum like to
> speak
> > > > about is what they find interesting, comfortable and does not
> challenge
> > > > them to change.
> > > >
> > > > It suggests that while most traders understand that trading is 90%
> > > > psychology, there is an unchallenged rule that we must avoid the
most
> > > > important issues involved in trading - so we can collectively and
> > > > individually avoid having to change.
> > > >
> > > > Sad really. In my dictionary it is called hypocrisy. You pretend
> you
> > > > are polite and nice and sincere and provide service, but you will
not
> even
> > > > tell your best friend they have body odour. For you fear attack by
> your
> > > > friend more than you wish to help your friend. You are selfish and
> > > > hypocritical.
> > > >
> > > > Hypocrisy shows up, not in reasoned agreement or disagreement or
> > > discussion
> > > > of the merits and demerits of the psychological ideas presented but
> in:
> > > >
> > > > - avoidance of the topic,
> > > > - rejection of a 'new' topic,
> > > > - accusations of 'too long',
> > > > - concentration on problems of style,
> > > > - filtering out the message,
> > > > - accept or reject style of reaction,
> > > > - reversion to crowd behaviour,
> > > > - feelings of discomfort or confusion,
> > > > - attacking the messenger,
> > > > - ...
> > > >
> > > > If any of these descriptions partly fit you, in respect of your
> handling
> > > of
> > > > a psychological thread on this forum, even to a small degree, what
are
> you
> > > > going to do about it?
> > > >
> > > > Some do take some active steps and make comments about 'what is the
> > > > problem, just delete', but will not come forward and tell it how it
> > > > is. Are they afraid that they might also be attacked by an immune
> > > > response? I suspect so - and I suspect their perceptions are
> correct.
> > > >
> > > > But then these crowd behaviours are destined to keep in place the
high
> > > > failure rate of traders - but never mind, it is more comfortable to
be
> a
> > > > loser, or if a winner to fail to realise your true potential.
> > > >
> > > > As an individual, not a member of a crowd, do you not deserve to
give
> > > > yourself something better? I think you are worth it - why don't
> > > > you? Act as an individual, not a member of a crowd.
> > > >
> > > > Some of the same people who go straight into reject mode in public,
> are
> > > > more circumspect when writing to me in private, for deep down they
> know
> > > > they have something to learn, but cannot admit it in public forum.
> What
> > > > does that tell you about crowd behaviour? What does it tell you
> about
> > > > its destructive influence? But of course, you have no need to
> change!
> > > >
> > > > If you are as imperfect as I am, then boy do you need to change.
> > > >
> > > > I find change a joy - there is so much to learn. So many problems
> and
> > > > mistakes and misconceptions to overcome, so many new ideas to digest
> and
> > > > old beliefs to discard.
> > > >
> > > > There is something to learn from everyone - we are all the same and
> all
> > > > different simultaneously.
> > > >
> > > > So many more ways to increase reward to risk ratios, lower risk of
> ruin,
> > > > recognise opportunities, ....
> > > >
> > > > But only if you can get past acceptance and rejection modes of
> reacting
> > > can
> > > > you begin to take personal responsibility - a characteristic
required
> for
> > > > change to be possible.
> > > >
> > > > Show that you can change, start a psychological topic yourself - and
> laugh
> > > > at the immune response. You will learn much, especially from the
> private
> > > > emails, where reasoned agreement and disagreement go hand in hand
with
> > > > challenging questions.
> > > >
> > > > And that is what life is about perhaps, learning, helping others,
> being
> > > > helped. But to be cynical for sake of stark comparison, there is
> always
> > > > the good feelings of crowd membership to fall back on!
> > > >
> > > > May your potential be realised, Ric.
> > > > www.traderscalm.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > realtraders-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > >
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> > >
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