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Eventually some traders do get around to examining this area of trading when
they can't seem to get it together after years of trying or perhaps they
just want to polish up one aspect of their already sucessful trading. One
trader on this list loaned me a set of audio tapes from a $3,000 psych
seminar. The psych's personal experience and thesis was the mkt was
entirely random and it could change direction immediately after putting on a
trade. Must have taken too many hits. Early in the seminar one of the
students asked him if he still traded, and after a pause the answer was no.
At least he was honest. He would rather take $3,000 from ten people in a 2
or 3 day session than risk trading. Can't criticise him for that since he
found his niche and that is what its about. The seminar continued, but I
have yet to get through these tapes and keep falling asleep. Back in 1992
when I retired(not from trading) at age 50 I had time to wander a bit and
had the good fortune of living with a female psychiatrist for a year. Each
morning I would jump out of bed an hour before the mkt opened and prepare
for the day. Then I would go into the next room where the old mac IIfx and
win 3.0 with TrendSetter and MSrt or TS3.0 were and traded for an hour and a
half. When she discovered it was possible to make more money in 7.5 hours
of work than in 30 days of prescibing meds to prison inmates, she concluded
that something was wrong with me! Her goal was to "cure" me whether I
wanted it or not. One morning on a walk past the nearby bird sanctuary I
asked her if a psychiatrist could be her own therapist. Of course it was a
loaded question as I thought she was loony as hell, and so did most of the
neighborhood. Her answer, after a pause, psychs like to pause, was "No".
It really was an interesting and unforgettable year of my life.
bobr
----- Original Message -----
From: "DanC" <danc@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [RT] Immune Response
> With the charter of the list being the discussion of TA, systems, market
> analysis, trading techniques, etc., and with the occupancy of the list
(at
> least with the prominent contributors) being experienced and veterans of
the
> fray, I would be surprised to see anything more than, at best, disinterest
in
> the psy. side of trading life. Somewhat akin to demanding blood sausage
in a
> vegan restaurant.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> Bob Heisler wrote:
>
> > Actually Ric does have a point in the beginning of his post. If you
start a
> > thread involving some new code, indicator/oscillator or some other
squiggly
> > line then your inbox will get flooded with responses. If on the other
hand
> > you start a thread on any psychological aspect of trading or something
to do
> > with trade management/money management then the thread ususally dies
almsot
> > immediately.
> >
> > This is something I have always found interesting because in my
experience
> > it's what you do once in the market that ultimately determines your
success,
> > not what got you in the market.
> >
> > I don't agree with the conclusions that Ric draws on why this happens,
but
> > his obsevartion of its occurence is right on.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tom Bowen
> > To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 1:07 AM
> > Subject: Re: [RT] Immune Response
> >
> > Norman,
> >
> > As usual you are dead on the money. Congratulations for being correct
and
> > not being afraid to call it like you see it.
> > I have routed all of Ric's ramblings to the delete bin via message rules
> > however reading your response and Ric's original rambling and raving
> > included in the thread has me rolling on the floor. He is entertaining
but
> > offers absolutely no value whatsoever to the world in general. I
originally
> > attempted to communicate with Ric and he did exactly what you indicate
in
> > your response (refused to listen). Then I realized that he is not
trying to
> > help anyone or accomplish anything constructive. He is using this forum
as
> > a means of entertainment. He rambles on about nothing to bait people on
the
> > forum into responding to him. The variety of the responses and the
ability
> > to generate disputes among list members is his warped idea of
entertainment.
> > My experience has been that if you ignore people like this they
eventually
> > go away because when no one responds to them the entertainment value of
> > their original intent is lost and their efforts are no longer rewarding
or
> > entertaining. You stand head and shoulders above him in integrity and
in
> > your ability to garner the respect of others so just ignore him and
route
> > his meaningless meanderings to the delete bin. You have far more value
to
> > offer this list than he so please don't let him bother you.
> >
> > God Bless and best wishes in all your future endeavors,
> > Tom
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Norman Winski
> > To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 9:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: [RT] Immune Response
> >
> > Ric,
> >
> > Hypocrisy is preaching to a group about being a good listener and then
> > refusing to listen to what that group says to you.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Norman
> >
> > P.S. I don't expect you to pay any heed to this. I only posted to share
the
> > amusing irony of the moment.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "ric ingram" <ringram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 9:49 PM
> > Subject: [RT] Immune Response
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > If a new thread is started on some obscure aspect of technical
analysis,
> > > this is OK, will often be built upon, and will not get any accusations
of
> > > introducing an out of the blue topic.
> > >
> > > If a new thread on some psychological related topic is started -
> > > immediately an host of people will rush forward to reject the foreign
> > body,
> > > like an immune response.
> > >
> > > It suggests that what a vocal group of people on this forum like to
speak
> > > about is what they find interesting, comfortable and does not
challenge
> > > them to change.
> > >
> > > It suggests that while most traders understand that trading is 90%
> > > psychology, there is an unchallenged rule that we must avoid the most
> > > important issues involved in trading - so we can collectively and
> > > individually avoid having to change.
> > >
> > > Sad really. In my dictionary it is called hypocrisy. You pretend
you
> > > are polite and nice and sincere and provide service, but you will not
even
> > > tell your best friend they have body odour. For you fear attack by
your
> > > friend more than you wish to help your friend. You are selfish and
> > > hypocritical.
> > >
> > > Hypocrisy shows up, not in reasoned agreement or disagreement or
> > discussion
> > > of the merits and demerits of the psychological ideas presented but
in:
> > >
> > > - avoidance of the topic,
> > > - rejection of a 'new' topic,
> > > - accusations of 'too long',
> > > - concentration on problems of style,
> > > - filtering out the message,
> > > - accept or reject style of reaction,
> > > - reversion to crowd behaviour,
> > > - feelings of discomfort or confusion,
> > > - attacking the messenger,
> > > - ...
> > >
> > > If any of these descriptions partly fit you, in respect of your
handling
> > of
> > > a psychological thread on this forum, even to a small degree, what are
you
> > > going to do about it?
> > >
> > > Some do take some active steps and make comments about 'what is the
> > > problem, just delete', but will not come forward and tell it how it
> > > is. Are they afraid that they might also be attacked by an immune
> > > response? I suspect so - and I suspect their perceptions are
correct.
> > >
> > > But then these crowd behaviours are destined to keep in place the high
> > > failure rate of traders - but never mind, it is more comfortable to be
a
> > > loser, or if a winner to fail to realise your true potential.
> > >
> > > As an individual, not a member of a crowd, do you not deserve to give
> > > yourself something better? I think you are worth it - why don't
> > > you? Act as an individual, not a member of a crowd.
> > >
> > > Some of the same people who go straight into reject mode in public,
are
> > > more circumspect when writing to me in private, for deep down they
know
> > > they have something to learn, but cannot admit it in public forum.
What
> > > does that tell you about crowd behaviour? What does it tell you
about
> > > its destructive influence? But of course, you have no need to
change!
> > >
> > > If you are as imperfect as I am, then boy do you need to change.
> > >
> > > I find change a joy - there is so much to learn. So many problems
and
> > > mistakes and misconceptions to overcome, so many new ideas to digest
and
> > > old beliefs to discard.
> > >
> > > There is something to learn from everyone - we are all the same and
all
> > > different simultaneously.
> > >
> > > So many more ways to increase reward to risk ratios, lower risk of
ruin,
> > > recognise opportunities, ....
> > >
> > > But only if you can get past acceptance and rejection modes of
reacting
> > can
> > > you begin to take personal responsibility - a characteristic required
for
> > > change to be possible.
> > >
> > > Show that you can change, start a psychological topic yourself - and
laugh
> > > at the immune response. You will learn much, especially from the
private
> > > emails, where reasoned agreement and disagreement go hand in hand with
> > > challenging questions.
> > >
> > > And that is what life is about perhaps, learning, helping others,
being
> > > helped. But to be cynical for sake of stark comparison, there is
always
> > > the good feelings of crowd membership to fall back on!
> > >
> > > May your potential be realised, Ric.
> > > www.traderscalm.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > realtraders-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
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> > realtraders-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
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> >
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