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to the tune of $3 billion and PLUS per YEAR.
What we COULDVE DONE with that money here IN THE good old U S A
how many jobs ? research...........
----- Original Message -----
From: "BobsKC" <bobskc@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: [RT] Oil!
> Israel is a country? Considering the military and financial support we
> provide. The irrational support of their policies and the spoon fed
> justification for the above while attempting to defend separation of
church
> and state, I'm just sure Israel IS a state! No?
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> At 05:15 AM 10/15/01 -0400, you wrote:
> >DanG,
> >
> > Correction to your statement below, the most western and democratic
> >country in the regioin is Israel, not Iran.
> >
> >Shalom,
> >
> >Norman
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Daniel Goncharoff" <thegonch@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 4:39 AM
> >Subject: Re: [RT] Oil!
> >
> >
> > > In the British press there is a lot of focus on Saudi Arabia as the
real
> > > battleground in the fight against Islamic terrorism. Although we treat
> > > them as a staunch ally, the Wahabi strain of fundamentalism that
> > > developed there and continues to exist is a major source of anti
> > > Americanism, both spiritually and economically. It is Saudi money that
> > > funds Al Queda, and Wahabi 'teachers' who travel to Islamic
communities
> > > throughout the world and preach a strict intolerant version of Islam.
> > >
> > > Furthermore, Saudi Arabia has a very weak version of democracy, and
> > > dissenting views are suppressed.
> > >
> > > But they have oil, so they are our ally.
> > >
> > > Meanwhile, the most democratic and western-looking country in that
part
> > > of the world remains an enemy -- Iran. So I agree with you, Norman,
that
> > > our relations towards that part of the world is often irrational, or
> > > rather too concerned with purely commercial interests and not
concerned
> > > enough with promulgating our principles to the rest of the world.
> > >
> > > Most of the people in that part of the world do not really hate us.
They
> > > envy us. They wish to be more like us. Their own governments don't let
> > > them, and their way of expressing their anger is to rail at the US,
> > > which often supports these repressive governments. To make it worse,
the
> > > US has done a terrible job of getting its point of view to the people
> > > there. There is no good VoA service in Arabic, and the local media
tends
> > > to allow heavily anti-American sentiment. The State Dept has no
> > > Arabic-speaking spokespeople that can communicate the US perspective.
> > >
> > > So it is a huge mistake to assume that everyone who burns a US flag
> > > supports the killing of innocent Americans, despite the efforts of the
> > > US media to imply that. And there are things the US could do to
improve
> > > its image in the Middle East. And we need to reconsider who our allies
> > > and who our enemies really are.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > DanG
> > >
> > >
> > > Norman Winski wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ralph,
> > > >
> > > > You raise an interesting point. If we don't need to support the
OPEC
> > > > states, then perhaps we have contributed to the current situation by
not
> > > > practising what we preach. We preach democracy and freedom, yet we
> >support
> > > > these very repressive OPEC regimes which leads to social unrest and
> > > > bitterness among their citizens. Perhaps via our foreign policy, we
> >have
> > > > sown the seeds of unrest which have lead to our current problems?
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Norman
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Ralph Volpe" <rjv@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 2:09 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [RT] Oil!
> > > >
> > > > > Daniel: how do you define 'hate mongering?' As for the posts
you're
> > > > calling hate mongering, what outlet do people have to show their
> >bitterness
> > > > > for having paid a premium for oil and then being stabbed in the
back?
> >We
> > > > don't have to buy ME oil; but it's done mainly to help the area and
> > > > > support economies without direct offerings of foreign aid. And
yet,
> >along
> > > > with their oil exports we're being terrorized and our very freedoms
> > > > > and religious beliefs are being threatened. As this unfolds, the
left
> >(and
> > > > I'm sure you're in that political sphere) accepts flags being burned
> > > > > and thousands of innocent civilians being killed as free speech
and
> >it's
> > > > 'HATE MONGERING' to express anger at those who do it? Daniel, get a
> > > > > grip on your priorities!
> > > > >
> > > > > Ralph
> > > > >
> > > > > Daniel Goncharoff wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Sounds to me like you are looking to get the monopoly on
> > > > > > hate-mongering...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Michael Ferguson wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I still say the West should cut off all oil purchases from the
Mid
> > > > East. Let
> > > > > > > them kill themselves over the last air conditioned limo. Let
them
> >pump
> > > > oil
> > > > > > > into jerry jugs when all their tanks are full. And absolutely
cut
> >off
> > > > their
> > > > > > > access to western revenues.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is plenty of oil in other continents to supply the west
for
> > > > years. It
> > > > > > > might not be noticeable, but the ME produces NOTHING. It
supplies
> >oil
> > > > to
> > > > > > > producer nations. Something about their culture is totally
> > > > unproductive. It
> > > > > > > is destructive and merciless. We should let them have it all
to
> > > > themselves.
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
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