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Israel is a country? Considering the military and financial support we
provide. The irrational support of their policies and the spoon fed
justification for the above while attempting to defend separation of church
and state, I'm just sure Israel IS a state! No?
Bob
At 05:15 AM 10/15/01 -0400, you wrote:
>DanG,
>
> Correction to your statement below, the most western and democratic
>country in the regioin is Israel, not Iran.
>
>Shalom,
>
>Norman
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Daniel Goncharoff" <thegonch@xxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 4:39 AM
>Subject: Re: [RT] Oil!
>
>
> > In the British press there is a lot of focus on Saudi Arabia as the real
> > battleground in the fight against Islamic terrorism. Although we treat
> > them as a staunch ally, the Wahabi strain of fundamentalism that
> > developed there and continues to exist is a major source of anti
> > Americanism, both spiritually and economically. It is Saudi money that
> > funds Al Queda, and Wahabi 'teachers' who travel to Islamic communities
> > throughout the world and preach a strict intolerant version of Islam.
> >
> > Furthermore, Saudi Arabia has a very weak version of democracy, and
> > dissenting views are suppressed.
> >
> > But they have oil, so they are our ally.
> >
> > Meanwhile, the most democratic and western-looking country in that part
> > of the world remains an enemy -- Iran. So I agree with you, Norman, that
> > our relations towards that part of the world is often irrational, or
> > rather too concerned with purely commercial interests and not concerned
> > enough with promulgating our principles to the rest of the world.
> >
> > Most of the people in that part of the world do not really hate us. They
> > envy us. They wish to be more like us. Their own governments don't let
> > them, and their way of expressing their anger is to rail at the US,
> > which often supports these repressive governments. To make it worse, the
> > US has done a terrible job of getting its point of view to the people
> > there. There is no good VoA service in Arabic, and the local media tends
> > to allow heavily anti-American sentiment. The State Dept has no
> > Arabic-speaking spokespeople that can communicate the US perspective.
> >
> > So it is a huge mistake to assume that everyone who burns a US flag
> > supports the killing of innocent Americans, despite the efforts of the
> > US media to imply that. And there are things the US could do to improve
> > its image in the Middle East. And we need to reconsider who our allies
> > and who our enemies really are.
> >
> > Regards
> > DanG
> >
> >
> > Norman Winski wrote:
> > >
> > > Ralph,
> > >
> > > You raise an interesting point. If we don't need to support the OPEC
> > > states, then perhaps we have contributed to the current situation by not
> > > practising what we preach. We preach democracy and freedom, yet we
>support
> > > these very repressive OPEC regimes which leads to social unrest and
> > > bitterness among their citizens. Perhaps via our foreign policy, we
>have
> > > sown the seeds of unrest which have lead to our current problems?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Norman
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ralph Volpe" <rjv@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 2:09 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [RT] Oil!
> > >
> > > > Daniel: how do you define 'hate mongering?' As for the posts you're
> > > calling hate mongering, what outlet do people have to show their
>bitterness
> > > > for having paid a premium for oil and then being stabbed in the back?
>We
> > > don't have to buy ME oil; but it's done mainly to help the area and
> > > > support economies without direct offerings of foreign aid. And yet,
>along
> > > with their oil exports we're being terrorized and our very freedoms
> > > > and religious beliefs are being threatened. As this unfolds, the left
>(and
> > > I'm sure you're in that political sphere) accepts flags being burned
> > > > and thousands of innocent civilians being killed as free speech and
>it's
> > > 'HATE MONGERING' to express anger at those who do it? Daniel, get a
> > > > grip on your priorities!
> > > >
> > > > Ralph
> > > >
> > > > Daniel Goncharoff wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Sounds to me like you are looking to get the monopoly on
> > > > > hate-mongering...
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael Ferguson wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I still say the West should cut off all oil purchases from the Mid
> > > East. Let
> > > > > > them kill themselves over the last air conditioned limo. Let them
>pump
> > > oil
> > > > > > into jerry jugs when all their tanks are full. And absolutely cut
>off
> > > their
> > > > > > access to western revenues.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is plenty of oil in other continents to supply the west for
> > > years. It
> > > > > > might not be noticeable, but the ME produces NOTHING. It supplies
>oil
> > > to
> > > > > > producer nations. Something about their culture is totally
> > > unproductive. It
> > > > > > is destructive and merciless. We should let them have it all to
> > > themselves.
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
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> >
>
>
>
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