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Now why on earth should I want to spin such a yarn? I am selling nothing; I
am merely involved in a friendly exchange with some people who asked me some
questions, some emails back!
>Bullshit !
>
>Gram wrote:
>
>> Suspect what you like. However, I trade regularly through European
brokers
>> on US and European markets, and I check slippage against my CQG data. Any
>> profits I make are always deposited into my account, minus such slippage
>> and, of course, commissions. Nothing else has ever been withheld.
>> What is withheld, if anything (because you don't seem to want to say how
>> much should be held), seems then to be held from the broker, certainly
not
>> from me!!!
>> He must be a very generous broker not to charge me, what do you think?
>>
>> Gram.
>> p.s. your last sentence is terribly cynical - perhaps you secretly like
your
>> fellow-traders being taxed heavily; perhaps it is your sense of justice?
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> >Any account which is opened to trade on US exchanges is required to
provide
>> a US
>> >tax ID # or the dealer(the brokerage house)has to pledge it's tax id #.
>> >Accounts without a US tax id # are subject to a non resident withholding
on
>> ALL
>> >proceeds and dividends. If the dealer doesn't get the information it is
>> >required to withhold... if it doesn't withhold against the customer the
>> >withholding occurs against the dealer account.
>> >
>> >I would assume you would have know these details. I really wouldn't
take
>> the
>> >time to address these issues. Not being familiar with them seems to
>> confirm
>> >what one might suspect.
>> >
>> >Gram wrote:
>> >
>> >> Before I tackle your points, would you please explain this better,
>> perhaps
>> >> with an example:
>> >> "You IB or BD is required to conform to non resident withholding or be
>> >> withheld themselves"
>> >> Many thanks,
>> >> Gram.
>> >> -----Messaggio originale-----
>> >> Da: The Doctor <droex@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> A: gramario@xxxxxx <gramario@xxxxxx>
>> >> Cc: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> Data: 25/06/2000 20:36
>> >> Oggetto: Re: [RT] R: R: Re: R: R: Re: Stocks and futures
>> >>
>> >> >You can't have a securities account or futures account using US
products
>> >> without
>> >> >either a social security number or be subject to non resident
>> withholding.
>> >> If
>> >> >you open an account at Schwab, Refco or UBS to trade in the US you
have
>> to
>> >> >supply a US SS # or be subject to non resident withholding on
dividends
>> and
>> >> >proceeds.
>> >> >
>> >> >Now I assume you are going to claim you use a non US broker. To
clear a
>> US
>> >> >product they need to have a US sub which conforms.
>> >> >
>> >> >For example ... in securities and futures there are size position
>> reports
>> >> which
>> >> >your broker has to submit. They either have to have a SS# or the
>> brokers
>> >> >SS#.... with an SS# the broker is subject to non resident
withholding.
>> >> There
>> >> >are no exceptions.
>> >> >
>> >> >You can live on MARS it wouldn't make a difference. There are
asset
>> >> havens
>> >> >once you have the funds ..... no income havens using securities or
>> futures.
>> >> >Even if your broker has an offshore sub or you trade through the
London
>> >> office
>> >> >of a US member.
>> >> >
>> >> >Gram wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> First, I don't even understand what an IB or BD is?
>> >> >> Second, I have no interest in US tax laws as they do not concern
me.
>> >> >> Third, the IRS is only one tax authority in the world. I feel
obliged
>> to
>> >> >> remind you that the US in only one state in the world, not the
whole
>> >> world!
>> >> >> If UK authorities do not/or cannot poke their noses into Sark
affairs,
>> I
>> >> see
>> >> >> no reason why US authorities should either. Further, surely any
>> serious
>> >> tax
>> >> >> planning should also take into account other tax authorities also.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Best,
>> >> >> Gram.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >I have a question? US tax laws require require non-resident with
>> >> holding.
>> >> >> How
>> >> >> >do you avoid that. You IB or BD is required to conform to non
>> resident
>> >> >> >withholding or be withheld themselves. So assuming the story is
>> correct
>> >> >> how do
>> >> >> >you avoid the w/h issue.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Gram wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Here: http://www.sark.net/~xott/sarkinfo.html
>> >> >> >> But where you live is only one part of it, you must also
organize
>> your
>> >> >> >> affairs properly.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> -----Messaggio originale-----
>> >> >> >> Da: Eliot Kaplan <eliot@xxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> A: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>RealTraders
>> >> <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> Data: 25/06/2000 19:31
>> >> >> >> Oggetto: [RT] Re: R: R: Re: Stocks and futures
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >Gram,
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Thanks for your response!
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >I guess the next logical question is: Where (what country &
>> >> >> state/province)
>> >> >> >> >have you found that is so resident/income friendly that no
taxes
>> are
>> >> >> >> >required?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >My wife is Canadian, so I often ponder whether I could trade
from
>> >> there
>> >> >> >> with
>> >> >> >> >significantly less taxes.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >I could get residency through her, and have often considered
>> >> Vancouver
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> >its environs a healthier alternative to Southern CA, which is
>> where I
>> >> am
>> >> >> >> >now.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >The US with its ever increasing legal controls, taxes,
pollution
>> and
>> >> >> >> >overpopulation have certainly got me looking at a potentially
>> >> quieter,
>> >> >> more
>> >> >> >> >hassle free existence across the border.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >If only winter weren't so extreme!
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Perhaps there are no "perfect" places?!
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >So, where are you pray tell?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Eliot
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Eliot Kaplan
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >email: eliot@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >web: www.isu.com
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> From: "Gram" <gramario@xxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> Reply-To: gramario@xxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:43:06 +0200
>> >> >> >> >> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> Subject: [RT] R: R: Re: Stocks and futures
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Hi Eliot,
>> >> >> >> >> I apologise for the fact that some people perhaps do not
realise
>> >> that
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> >> >> neither live nor operate from or within the US.
>> >> >> >> >> I long ago decided that these costs had to be dealt with in
>> order
>> >> to
>> >> >> be
>> >> >> >> free
>> >> >> >> >> from some encumberances. I made my plan (much as most of us
do
>> when
>> >> >> >> >> trading), and then took steps to nurse and guide it to
fruition.
>> >> >> >> >> I have no interest in the IRS or any other institution and
there
>> is
>> >> no
>> >> >> >> >> reason why they should an interest in me..
>> >> >> >> >> I am not a "declared tax free" as you put it; my position is
>> >> perfectly
>> >> >> >> >> legal.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> As to your question:
>> >> >> >> >> "Do you not get audited and harassed by the IRS? There might
be
>> a
>> >> few
>> >> >> >> >> significant time, energy, and dollar costs in that, no?"
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The answer is, "No, I do not get audited nor harassed by
anyone.
>> >> >> Hence,
>> >> >> >> >> there are no significant costs (whether they be of a time,
>> energy,
>> >> or
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> dollar nature)."
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Gram,
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>> Are you just not paying taxes?
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> I presume this means you are among the folks who believe you
do
>> >> not
>> >> >> need
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >>> pay, that the Constitution or whatever "asks" for
contributions
>> >> but
>> >> >> does
>> >> >> >> >> not
>> >> >> >> >>> and doesn't have the right to "demand" them. Is this so?
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> I've heard of the "declared tax free', but, like many, I'm
>> sure,
>> >> have
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> hard
>> >> >> >> >>> time believing that just not paying would work, and not
cause
>> >> >> >> significant
>> >> >> >> >>> problems.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Want to enlighten us on what you mean? And how long you've
done
>> it
>> >> >> >> >>> successfully.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Your point about other trading costs being insignificant in
>> >> relation
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >>> taxes is clearly so, but I'm sure many of us have a hard
time
>> with
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> idea
>> >> >> >> >>> we can just walk away from taxes with no governmental
recourse.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Do you not get audited and harassed by the IRS? There might
be
>> a
>> >> few
>> >> >> >> >>> significant time, energy, and dollar costs in that, no?
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Just an interested citizen, and I apologize to the list that
>> this
>> >> >> >> inquiry
>> >> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> >>> perhaps off topic.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Eliot
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Eliot Kaplan
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> email: eliot@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >>> web: www.isu.com
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> From: "Gram" <gramario@xxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >>>> Reply-To: gramario@xxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >>>> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 07:39:18 +0200
>> >> >> >> >>>> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >>>> Subject: [RT] R: Re: Stocks and futures
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> So many people spend time comparing brokers commissions,
data
>> >> feeds,
>> >> >> >> etc.
>> >> >> >> >>>> which do indeed eat into their trading profits. But instead
of
>> >> >> >> >> concentrating
>> >> >> >> >>>> solely on trading costs, look at it the other way for a
>> moment:
>> >> >> >> eliminate
>> >> >> >> >>>> all tax, all accountants, all paperwork, inheritance taxes,
>> >> Capital
>> >> >> >> Gains
>> >> >> >> >>>> and all corporate taxes and see what this does to your
trading
>> >> P&L.
>> >> >> >> >>>> Try thinking of it as $1 earned = $1 kept. It is much
easier
>> to
>> >> >> become
>> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >>>> millionaire this way.
>> >> >> >> >>>> If you save 30+% a year on such costs, the choice between
CQG
>> or
>> >> >> >> >> Quote.com
>> >> >> >> >>>> becomes easier. You choose the best there is for your
needs!
>> >> >> >> >>>> Just an idea.
>> >> >> >> >>>> Gram.
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>
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