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Suspect what you like. However, I trade regularly through European brokers
on US and European markets, and I check slippage against my CQG data. Any
profits I make are always deposited into my account, minus such slippage
and, of course, commissions. Nothing else has ever been withheld.
What is withheld, if anything (because you don't seem to want to say how
much should be held), seems then to be held from the broker, certainly not
from me!!!
He must be a very generous broker not to charge me, what do you think?
Gram.
p.s. your last sentence is terribly cynical - perhaps you secretly like your
fellow-traders being taxed heavily; perhaps it is your sense of justice?
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>Any account which is opened to trade on US exchanges is required to provide
a US
>tax ID # or the dealer(the brokerage house)has to pledge it's tax id #.
>Accounts without a US tax id # are subject to a non resident withholding on
ALL
>proceeds and dividends. If the dealer doesn't get the information it is
>required to withhold... if it doesn't withhold against the customer the
>withholding occurs against the dealer account.
>
>I would assume you would have know these details. I really wouldn't take
the
>time to address these issues. Not being familiar with them seems to
confirm
>what one might suspect.
>
>Gram wrote:
>
>> Before I tackle your points, would you please explain this better,
perhaps
>> with an example:
>> "You IB or BD is required to conform to non resident withholding or be
>> withheld themselves"
>> Many thanks,
>> Gram.
>> -----Messaggio originale-----
>> Da: The Doctor <droex@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> A: gramario@xxxxxx <gramario@xxxxxx>
>> Cc: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Data: 25/06/2000 20:36
>> Oggetto: Re: [RT] R: R: Re: R: R: Re: Stocks and futures
>>
>> >You can't have a securities account or futures account using US products
>> without
>> >either a social security number or be subject to non resident
withholding.
>> If
>> >you open an account at Schwab, Refco or UBS to trade in the US you have
to
>> >supply a US SS # or be subject to non resident withholding on dividends
and
>> >proceeds.
>> >
>> >Now I assume you are going to claim you use a non US broker. To clear a
US
>> >product they need to have a US sub which conforms.
>> >
>> >For example ... in securities and futures there are size position
reports
>> which
>> >your broker has to submit. They either have to have a SS# or the
brokers
>> >SS#.... with an SS# the broker is subject to non resident withholding.
>> There
>> >are no exceptions.
>> >
>> >You can live on MARS it wouldn't make a difference. There are asset
>> havens
>> >once you have the funds ..... no income havens using securities or
futures.
>> >Even if your broker has an offshore sub or you trade through the London
>> office
>> >of a US member.
>> >
>> >Gram wrote:
>> >
>> >> First, I don't even understand what an IB or BD is?
>> >> Second, I have no interest in US tax laws as they do not concern me.
>> >> Third, the IRS is only one tax authority in the world. I feel obliged
to
>> >> remind you that the US in only one state in the world, not the whole
>> world!
>> >> If UK authorities do not/or cannot poke their noses into Sark affairs,
I
>> see
>> >> no reason why US authorities should either. Further, surely any
serious
>> tax
>> >> planning should also take into account other tax authorities also.
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >> Gram.
>> >>
>> >> >I have a question? US tax laws require require non-resident with
>> holding.
>> >> How
>> >> >do you avoid that. You IB or BD is required to conform to non
resident
>> >> >withholding or be withheld themselves. So assuming the story is
correct
>> >> how do
>> >> >you avoid the w/h issue.
>> >> >
>> >> >Gram wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Here: http://www.sark.net/~xott/sarkinfo.html
>> >> >> But where you live is only one part of it, you must also organize
your
>> >> >> affairs properly.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -----Messaggio originale-----
>> >> >> Da: Eliot Kaplan <eliot@xxxxxxx>
>> >> >> A: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>RealTraders
>> <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> Data: 25/06/2000 19:31
>> >> >> Oggetto: [RT] Re: R: R: Re: Stocks and futures
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Gram,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Thanks for your response!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I guess the next logical question is: Where (what country &
>> >> state/province)
>> >> >> >have you found that is so resident/income friendly that no taxes
are
>> >> >> >required?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >My wife is Canadian, so I often ponder whether I could trade from
>> there
>> >> >> with
>> >> >> >significantly less taxes.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I could get residency through her, and have often considered
>> Vancouver
>> >> and
>> >> >> >its environs a healthier alternative to Southern CA, which is
where I
>> am
>> >> >> >now.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >The US with its ever increasing legal controls, taxes, pollution
and
>> >> >> >overpopulation have certainly got me looking at a potentially
>> quieter,
>> >> more
>> >> >> >hassle free existence across the border.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >If only winter weren't so extreme!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Perhaps there are no "perfect" places?!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >So, where are you pray tell?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Eliot
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Eliot Kaplan
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >email: eliot@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >web: www.isu.com
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> From: "Gram" <gramario@xxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> Reply-To: gramario@xxxxxx
>> >> >> >> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:43:06 +0200
>> >> >> >> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> Subject: [RT] R: R: Re: Stocks and futures
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Hi Eliot,
>> >> >> >> I apologise for the fact that some people perhaps do not realise
>> that
>> >> I
>> >> >> >> neither live nor operate from or within the US.
>> >> >> >> I long ago decided that these costs had to be dealt with in
order
>> to
>> >> be
>> >> >> free
>> >> >> >> from some encumberances. I made my plan (much as most of us do
when
>> >> >> >> trading), and then took steps to nurse and guide it to fruition.
>> >> >> >> I have no interest in the IRS or any other institution and there
is
>> no
>> >> >> >> reason why they should an interest in me..
>> >> >> >> I am not a "declared tax free" as you put it; my position is
>> perfectly
>> >> >> >> legal.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> As to your question:
>> >> >> >> "Do you not get audited and harassed by the IRS? There might be
a
>> few
>> >> >> >> significant time, energy, and dollar costs in that, no?"
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The answer is, "No, I do not get audited nor harassed by anyone.
>> >> Hence,
>> >> >> >> there are no significant costs (whether they be of a time,
energy,
>> or
>> >> a
>> >> >> >> dollar nature)."
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Gram,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> Are you just not paying taxes?
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> I presume this means you are among the folks who believe you do
>> not
>> >> need
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> >>> pay, that the Constitution or whatever "asks" for contributions
>> but
>> >> does
>> >> >> >> not
>> >> >> >>> and doesn't have the right to "demand" them. Is this so?
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> I've heard of the "declared tax free', but, like many, I'm
sure,
>> have
>> >> a
>> >> >> >> hard
>> >> >> >>> time believing that just not paying would work, and not cause
>> >> >> significant
>> >> >> >>> problems.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Want to enlighten us on what you mean? And how long you've done
it
>> >> >> >>> successfully.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Your point about other trading costs being insignificant in
>> relation
>> >> to
>> >> >> >>> taxes is clearly so, but I'm sure many of us have a hard time
with
>> >> the
>> >> >> idea
>> >> >> >>> we can just walk away from taxes with no governmental recourse.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Do you not get audited and harassed by the IRS? There might be
a
>> few
>> >> >> >>> significant time, energy, and dollar costs in that, no?
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Just an interested citizen, and I apologize to the list that
this
>> >> >> inquiry
>> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >>> perhaps off topic.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Eliot
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Eliot Kaplan
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> email: eliot@xxxxxxx
>> >> >> >>> web: www.isu.com
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>> From: "Gram" <gramario@xxxxxx>
>> >> >> >>>> Reply-To: gramario@xxxxxx
>> >> >> >>>> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 07:39:18 +0200
>> >> >> >>>> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >>>> Subject: [RT] R: Re: Stocks and futures
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> So many people spend time comparing brokers commissions, data
>> feeds,
>> >> >> etc.
>> >> >> >>>> which do indeed eat into their trading profits. But instead of
>> >> >> >> concentrating
>> >> >> >>>> solely on trading costs, look at it the other way for a
moment:
>> >> >> eliminate
>> >> >> >>>> all tax, all accountants, all paperwork, inheritance taxes,
>> Capital
>> >> >> Gains
>> >> >> >>>> and all corporate taxes and see what this does to your trading
>> P&L.
>> >> >> >>>> Try thinking of it as $1 earned = $1 kept. It is much easier
to
>> >> become
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> >>>> millionaire this way.
>> >> >> >>>> If you save 30+% a year on such costs, the choice between CQG
or
>> >> >> >> Quote.com
>> >> >> >>>> becomes easier. You choose the best there is for your needs!
>> >> >> >>>> Just an idea.
>> >> >> >>>> Gram.
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>
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