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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Just following through:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>1. Entered short 1887 5/4 night
session</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Covered 1854 at the open 5/5</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2. Re-entered short 1868 on night session low
(retest)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stopped out at 1902 on 5/5 stop run</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>3a. Re-entered short 1868 5/6 opening
hour.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>3b. Bought 1850/1900 call spread for 19 cents 5/6
mid-session.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Covered short 1790 5/7</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sold 1850/1900 call spread for 13 cents
5/7</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>P&L:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>1. + 33</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2. - 34</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>3a.+ 78</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>3b. - 6</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>+71 cents, $710 less commission per
lot.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Comments:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>a. Repeat signals/entries taken in the same
direction as originally triggered generally have a better payoff even though one
may get stopped out due to uncontrollable factors. Just because one gets stopped
out does not mean a high probability setup has failed. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Psychologically, though, it is difficult to
re-enter a broken trade.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>b. When the ducks quack, feed them. I like to take
profits on range expansion bars.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>c. 19 cent cost of call spread protection
was worthwhile for insulating overnight gap risk. In effect this got reduced to
6 cents. This spread is 13 bid 17 offered right now, with Crude at 1790. I hit
the bid since I want to go home flat for the trade.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have other open positions in this
market.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Gitanshu</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Fri May 07 15:01:25 1999
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Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 12:06:15 -0700
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From: "Norman E. Phair" <ericrogers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Stops/Michael
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Don:
Lighten up. Its Friday and you have all weekend to let your hair down. In
my case I do not have enough to let down.
Its only money. It seems when I get involved in a subject here, I evoke a
lot of hostility sometimes. I do NOT disagree with
your basic premise. See below.
If anybody has enough money they can move a quiet or thin market for the
short period of time, say intrados. But equilibrium
will come into play at some point.
To expand on what I am saying: Yes, I know the floor traders will gun for
the stops, that is part of the game. Do I like it?
No. If you don't like the game stay out of the kitchen. Unfortunately
commodities do not have specialists and market makers
like the stock market does. There was a big investigation a few years back
by who, I do not remember. The bottom line, in my opinion, is that the
commodity traders got away with almost murder. The prosecution was unable
to prove their case, only a few
floor traders got their hands slapped.
I do not trade thin commodities i.e. bellies, coffee and the like, this is
one of the reasons. .
> Again, the basic statement you made is true, I think most people know
> that. It is common knowledge in the industry.
The NFA would love to make the commodity markets modeled after the stock
market. They have not figured out a way to do it without disrupting the
functions that they were set up to accomplish in the first place.
What I said is you can not do it in a big way because if you accumulate a
large position , you will not be able to sell it. Who will buy it when you
have pushed the market by your actions? Someone did a study one time and
determined that up to 30% of the commodity trade prints were out of
sequence. This is another problem with commodities.
Don, I mentioned that I had been a trader for mutual funds because of the
statement I made about "not working in stocks." Some people still think
that the specialists control the market and can do whatever they want. I
did not want to get a bunch of Richard Ney fans sending me e-mail. No, my
credentials are not impeccable , yes I have been around so to speak, yes I
have made many errors in my employment life that I wish I could have done
differently. No, if I had bought a seat at 12.5K I would not tell you or
anyone. I do not brag , I will at times list facts to bring home a point.
I try not to post too many items on this site. I will answer people, and
that seems to evoke enough controversy to keep me busy answering back to
them as in now.
I do my share of e-mail to people privately, Most of the time I do not
send a copy to the group. Yes, i was in the business for over 35 years and
if I can be of a little assistance to someone on here I will do it
willingly. I do volunteer work to help people less fortunate. I have
never said that here. I must answer your statement that insinuates that I
like to brag. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. You do not know
me, so please do not make an assumption unless you know all the facts.
The few criticisms I received concerning my letter to Edelina was upsetting
because people made statements about the tone of the letter when they did
not have all the facts. They do not know what my conversations were with
Edelina, or what was said on the over 25 PRIVATE e-mail I had with her.
I work with a group of people and sometime, someone in the group needs
TOUGH LOVE. (If anyone need an explanation, send me a private email) I
made a decision that Edelina had reached this plateau. Yes, I can down
hard on her. One other member in the group was concerned enough about
here that he talked to her on the phone. He and I were trying to advert a
catastrophe. Yes, I care about people , i will only accept criticism if
it is warranted, but make sure all the facts are in. I will not accept
criticism from these people because they made statements that the
language was unwarranted. How can anyone make this statement when they
do not have all the facts and information. I would hate to see them on a
jury case. Sorry for adding this subject to your email, but I wrote out a
lot more last night and slept on it. This is only a small part of it.
I guess I should have kept my mouth shut when I saw how much the floor
traders P___ Y___O_____. As a result I took the blunt of your anger
because I think you interpreted what I was saying a little differently
than what I said, that is my fault, I should have explained it better. Yes,
I could have made it clearer. When I do a draft I change it many times.
When people type on the computer I thing they say what comes into their
head, I know I do, and sometimes after I send it , I wish I had phrased it
differently.
Hay, I am a nice old man. If you need references let me know.
Norman E.
o
<<I have been a trader for two mutual fund companies and it does not
> work in stocks
> and I doubt very much if it will work in commodities. If you can show
> me
> proof that it does I will listen.>>
>
> We all know of your incredible impeccable credentials, Norman. (How
> could we not know). If I proved it to you, then you would have to quit
> your piranha anonymous group.
>
> Stocks have the specialists at NY who are not allowed to push the market
> like the locals do. They take the opposite side to create liquidity.
> The locals create moves in an effort to pick off all the "suckers" that
> have signed up to trade in "their" pit. To them, if someone leaves a
> stop, it is their "right" to pick it, because such a person "is a loser"
> anyway. (I've heard them talk this way in the background on LOS). But
> this is part of the game, as we know it at this time.
>
> We are all fortunate that Norman didn't buy a seat at 12.5k, or he might
> be likely to brag a little.
>
> Don
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