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Re: Day trading success



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<P>Bob Heisler wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;<FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>I
thought I would throw my two cents in on this discussion.</FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>First,
I find it quite amusing how often people will ask of others things they
would never consider doing themselves, i.e.. account statements and the
like.&nbsp; And then the people who refuse are labeled as charlatans or
some other derogatory term - and the folks doing the name calling haven't
even seen the product!!!!!</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>NW:&nbsp; I find it quite amusing
that anyone thinks that people are going to bother to read a whole page
of this</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>small type.&nbsp; I am now conditioned
so that whenever I see the 10 point or less type, I just hit the ol' delete
key.</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>By the way,&nbsp; I have 20-20 or
better vision and I plan to keep it that way. That is one reason I won't
strain to read the small type.</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>Squintingly,</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>Norman</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;<FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>I
find it even more amusing that most of the people who label others as charlatans
are the same ones looking for some "system" to make them successful.&nbsp;
They demand guarantees, proof of performance, etc.&nbsp; To me this reaks
of the 90's tradition of finger pointing, making excuses, looking for a
handout instead of a handup, and refusing to accept responsibility for
your own actions - and is quite repugnant.</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>Trading
is no different than any other profession in that the best usually rise
to the top (excluding nepotism).&nbsp; There are only a few successful
traders just like there are only a few CEOs, CFOs, VP's, etc.&nbsp; Most
people aspire to advance to these levels, but only a few are successful
in that journey.&nbsp; The ones who do have passion and are willing to
put forth the time and effort it takes to be successful at anything.&nbsp;
And they hold themselves accountable for their own actions.&nbsp; No where
are these qualities more critical than in trading.</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>As
far as guarantees are concerned, I would never offer one for several reasons.&nbsp;
First, trading successfully has much more to do with psychology than methods.&nbsp;
Granted you need a sound methodology to trade well, but a good trader could
trade profitably with a poor method and a poor trader could lose money
with a 'system' that was 100% accurate.</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>Secondly,
printed materials, software, videos, etc., are easily copied and distributed.&nbsp;
I worked in the computer industry for 15 years and am intimately familiar
with software piracy.&nbsp; We have all done it and are most likely guilty
of it right now.&nbsp; And it is done everyday in the Futures industry
as well.&nbsp; <FONT COLOR="#000000">Thirdly, there is no method that will
work for every trader.&nbsp; We all have to go through our own learning
process.</FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>I
haven't purchased Bill's manual, but if I were going to my goal would not
be to find a complete turnkey system to make me rich.&nbsp; I would purchase
it with the hopes that there would be some information there that could
be incorporated into my own trading style or method which would improve
my trading.&nbsp; Nor would I ask for a guarantee.&nbsp; I would do my
due diligence before sending the check and live with results.&nbsp; After
all it was <B><U>MY</U></B> decision to purchase <B><U>HIS</U></B> product.&nbsp;
As Ira stated, intellectual property is not an appliance or computer.</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>I
understand completely how difficult it is to find quality information or
products related to trading.&nbsp; And I also know that there are numerous
disreputable people out there just waiting to take your money and provide
nothing in return.&nbsp; However, it is your responsibility to do your
homework before making any purchase.&nbsp; And if you still get taken,
then learn from it and deal with it in a&nbsp; professional and objective
manner, and try not to make the same mistake twice.</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>Trade
Well,</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>Bob</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>-----Original
Message-----</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>From: Ira &lt;ist@xxxxxx></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>To: RealTraders Discussion Group &lt;realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 4:19
PM</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>Subject: Day trading success</FONT></FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;>I have seen so much discussion about people selling things and
other
<BR>>people screaming fraud, spam and show me your bank book.&nbsp; Because
I am
<BR>>successful, doesn't mean that you are going to be successful.&nbsp;
The
<BR>>negative attitude here is derived from, I believe, I've been burned
so
<BR>>everyone selling anything is trying to take my money.&nbsp; If you
are
<BR>>negative when you buy something and say it will not work, it won't
work
<BR>>because you won't let it work.&nbsp; If it worked you would be wrong
about it
<BR>>being a scam and that is something most people can't stand, to be
<BR>>wrong.&nbsp; I have spent a lot of money over the years on material
that I
<BR>>considered to have little value.&nbsp; Out of each I was able to derive
<BR>>something.&nbsp; It might only be to never use that type of trading
<BR>>methodology again because it didn't suit me.&nbsp; That is a lesson
well
<BR>>learned.&nbsp;&nbsp; I would be willing to say that any experienced,
successful
<BR>>trader could probably take any system and make it work.&nbsp; I say
that
<BR>>because that trader would understand from experience what information
<BR>>the system was delivering to him, how to interpret and adjust it
<BR>>properly, and how to utilize the information to make a profit.&nbsp;
Some
<BR>>people use astrology, others the moon, some indicators developed by
<BR>>Wells Wilder or William's, some are seasonal traders and some use
<BR>>fundamentals.&nbsp; I knew a trader that had two ties. One for a bear
market
<BR>>when he was short and a different one for a bull market when he was
<BR>>long.&nbsp;&nbsp; That worked for him for he was able to spend 5 years
in Europe
<BR>>on his earnings.
<BR>>
<BR>>The true test of a system for sale is not if the party using it can
make
<BR>>money, show me your bank book, but whether someone who is taught the
<BR>>system can make money with it.&nbsp; If I was buying a system I would
ask,
<BR>>who can I contact who is using the system, and did you teach it to
him?
<BR>>AS far as a money back guarantee, that is ridiculous.&nbsp; If you
are
<BR>>selling information, once the party has it,&nbsp; it can be copied
and then
<BR>>the original returned for a refund.&nbsp; Intellectual property should
not
<BR>>carry a money back guarantee.&nbsp; It is not a stove or a refrigerator.&nbsp;
All
<BR>>a copyright does is prevent someone from reprinting it and selling
it,
<BR>>it does not stop someone from using the information for personal
<BR>>benefit.
<BR>>
<BR>>Have you ever seen the sign on a Port Potty.&nbsp; It may be ti--
to you but
<BR>>it is gold to us.&nbsp; A system is the same thing.&nbsp; No one can
make a
<BR>>consistent living selling some thing that doesn't work.&nbsp; The
word gets
<BR>>out to soon.&nbsp; Have a good week end.&nbsp; Ira.
<BR>></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 04:45:00 -0500
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From: "Frank B. Tarr O.D." <ftarr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Day trading success
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Frank					Columbus, Ohio


nwinski wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Bob Heisler wrote:
> 
> >  I thought I would throw my two cents in on this discussion. First,
> > I find it quite amusing how often people will ask of others things
> > they would never consider doing themselves, i.e.. account statements
> > and the like.  And then the people who refuse are labeled as
> > charlatans or some other derogatory term - and the folks doing the
> > name calling haven't even seen the product!!!!!
> >
> > NW:  I find it quite amusing that anyone thinks that people are
> > going to bother to read a whole page of this
> > small type.  I am now conditioned so that whenever I see the 10
> > point or less type, I just hit the ol' delete key.
> > By the way,  I have 20-20 or better vision and I plan to keep it
> > that way. That is one reason I won't strain to read the small type.
> >
> > Squintingly,
> >
> > Norman
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   I find it even more amusing that most of the people who label
> > others as charlatans are the same ones looking for some "system" to
> > make them successful.  They demand guarantees, proof of performance,
> > etc.  To me this reaks of the 90's tradition of finger pointing,
> > making excuses, looking for a handout instead of a handup, and
> > refusing to accept responsibility for your own actions - and is
> > quite repugnant. Trading is no different than any other profession
> > in that the best usually rise to the top (excluding nepotism).
> > There are only a few successful traders just like there are only a
> > few CEOs, CFOs, VP's, etc.  Most people aspire to advance to these
> > levels, but only a few are successful in that journey.  The ones who
> > do have passion and are willing to put forth the time and effort it
> > takes to be successful at anything.  And they hold themselves
> > accountable for their own actions.  No where are these qualities
> > more critical than in trading. As far as guarantees are concerned, I
> > would never offer one for several reasons.  First, trading
> > successfully has much more to do with psychology than methods.
> > Granted you need a sound methodology to trade well, but a good
> > trader could trade profitably with a poor method and a poor trader
> > could lose money with a 'system' that was 100% accurate. Secondly,
> > printed materials, software, videos, etc., are easily copied and
> > distributed.  I worked in the computer industry for 15 years and am
> > intimately familiar with software piracy.  We have all done it and
> > are most likely guilty of it right now.  And it is done everyday in
> > the Futures industry as well.  Thirdly, there is no method that will
> > work for every trader.  We all have to go through our own learning
> > process. I haven't purchased Bill's manual, but if I were going to
> > my goal would not be to find a complete turnkey system to make me
> > rich.  I would purchase it with the hopes that there would be some
> > information there that could be incorporated into my own trading
> > style or method which would improve my trading.  Nor would I ask for
> > a guarantee.  I would do my due diligence before sending the check
> > and live with results.  After all it was MY decision to purchase HIS
> > product.  As Ira stated, intellectual property is not an appliance
> > or computer. I understand completely how difficult it is to find
> > quality information or products related to trading.  And I also know
> > that there are numerous disreputable people out there just waiting
> > to take your money and provide nothing in return.  However, it is
> > your responsibility to do your homework before making any purchase.
> > And if you still get taken, then learn from it and deal with it in
> > a  professional and objective manner, and try not to make the same
> > mistake twice. Trade Well, Bob -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ira <ist@xxxxxx>
> > To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 4:19 PM
> > Subject: Day trading success
> >  >I have seen so much discussion about people selling things and
> > other
> > >people screaming fraud, spam and show me your bank book.  Because I
> > am
> > >successful, doesn't mean that you are going to be successful.  The
> > >negative attitude here is derived from, I believe, I've been burned
> > so
> > >everyone selling anything is trying to take my money.  If you are
> > >negative when you buy something and say it will not work, it won't
> > work
> > >because you won't let it work.  If it worked you would be wrong
> > about it
> > >being a scam and that is something most people can't stand, to be
> > >wrong.  I have spent a lot of money over the years on material that
> > I
> > >considered to have little value.  Out of each I was able to derive
> > >something.  It might only be to never use that type of trading
> > >methodology again because it didn't suit me.  That is a lesson well
> >
> > >learned.   I would be willing to say that any experienced,
> > successful
> > >trader could probably take any system and make it work.  I say that
> >
> > >because that trader would understand from experience what
> > information
> > >the system was delivering to him, how to interpret and adjust it
> > >properly, and how to utilize the information to make a profit.
> > Some
> > >people use astrology, others the moon, some indicators developed by
> >
> > >Wells Wilder or William's, some are seasonal traders and some use
> > >fundamentals.  I knew a trader that had two ties. One for a bear
> > market
> > >when he was short and a different one for a bull market when he was
> >
> > >long.   That worked for him for he was able to spend 5 years in
> > Europe
> > >on his earnings.
> > >
> > >The true test of a system for sale is not if the party using it can
> > make
> > >money, show me your bank book, but whether someone who is taught
> > the
> > >system can make money with it.  If I was buying a system I would
> > ask,
> > >who can I contact who is using the system, and did you teach it to
> > him?
> > >AS far as a money back guarantee, that is ridiculous.  If you are
> > >selling information, once the party has it,  it can be copied and
> > then
> > >the original returned for a refund.  Intellectual property should
> > not
> > >carry a money back guarantee.  It is not a stove or a
> > refrigerator.  All
> > >a copyright does is prevent someone from reprinting it and selling
> > it,
> > >it does not stop someone from using the information for personal
> > >benefit.
> > >
> > >Have you ever seen the sign on a Port Potty.  It may be ti-- to you
> > but
> > >it is gold to us.  A system is the same thing.  No one can make a
> > >consistent living selling some thing that doesn't work.  The word
> > gets
> > >out to soon.  Have a good week end.  Ira.
> > >