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<P>Bob Heisler wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>I
thought I would throw my two cents in on this discussion.</FONT></FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>First,
I find it quite amusing how often people will ask of others things they
would never consider doing themselves, i.e.. account statements and the
like. And then the people who refuse are labeled as charlatans or
some other derogatory term - and the folks doing the name calling haven't
even seen the product!!!!!</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>NW: I find it quite amusing
that anyone thinks that people are going to bother to read a whole page
of this</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>small type. I am now conditioned
so that whenever I see the 10 point or less type, I just hit the ol' delete
key.</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>By the way, I have 20-20 or
better vision and I plan to keep it that way. That is one reason I won't
strain to read the small type.</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>Squintingly,</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>Norman</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>I
find it even more amusing that most of the people who label others as charlatans
are the same ones looking for some "system" to make them successful.
They demand guarantees, proof of performance, etc. To me this reaks
of the 90's tradition of finger pointing, making excuses, looking for a
handout instead of a handup, and refusing to accept responsibility for
your own actions - and is quite repugnant.</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>Trading
is no different than any other profession in that the best usually rise
to the top (excluding nepotism). There are only a few successful
traders just like there are only a few CEOs, CFOs, VP's, etc. Most
people aspire to advance to these levels, but only a few are successful
in that journey. The ones who do have passion and are willing to
put forth the time and effort it takes to be successful at anything.
And they hold themselves accountable for their own actions. No where
are these qualities more critical than in trading.</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>As
far as guarantees are concerned, I would never offer one for several reasons.
First, trading successfully has much more to do with psychology than methods.
Granted you need a sound methodology to trade well, but a good trader could
trade profitably with a poor method and a poor trader could lose money
with a 'system' that was 100% accurate.</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>Secondly,
printed materials, software, videos, etc., are easily copied and distributed.
I worked in the computer industry for 15 years and am intimately familiar
with software piracy. We have all done it and are most likely guilty
of it right now. And it is done everyday in the Futures industry
as well. <FONT COLOR="#000000">Thirdly, there is no method that will
work for every trader. We all have to go through our own learning
process.</FONT></FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>I
haven't purchased Bill's manual, but if I were going to my goal would not
be to find a complete turnkey system to make me rich. I would purchase
it with the hopes that there would be some information there that could
be incorporated into my own trading style or method which would improve
my trading. Nor would I ask for a guarantee. I would do my
due diligence before sending the check and live with results. After
all it was <B><U>MY</U></B> decision to purchase <B><U>HIS</U></B> product.
As Ira stated, intellectual property is not an appliance or computer.</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>I
understand completely how difficult it is to find quality information or
products related to trading. And I also know that there are numerous
disreputable people out there just waiting to take your money and provide
nothing in return. However, it is your responsibility to do your
homework before making any purchase. And if you still get taken,
then learn from it and deal with it in a professional and objective
manner, and try not to make the same mistake twice.</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>Trade
Well,</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Verdana"><FONT SIZE=-1>Bob</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>-----Original
Message-----</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>From: Ira <ist@xxxxxx></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 4:19
PM</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>Subject: Day trading success</FONT></FONT>
<BR> >I have seen so much discussion about people selling things and
other
<BR>>people screaming fraud, spam and show me your bank book. Because
I am
<BR>>successful, doesn't mean that you are going to be successful.
The
<BR>>negative attitude here is derived from, I believe, I've been burned
so
<BR>>everyone selling anything is trying to take my money. If you
are
<BR>>negative when you buy something and say it will not work, it won't
work
<BR>>because you won't let it work. If it worked you would be wrong
about it
<BR>>being a scam and that is something most people can't stand, to be
<BR>>wrong. I have spent a lot of money over the years on material
that I
<BR>>considered to have little value. Out of each I was able to derive
<BR>>something. It might only be to never use that type of trading
<BR>>methodology again because it didn't suit me. That is a lesson
well
<BR>>learned. I would be willing to say that any experienced,
successful
<BR>>trader could probably take any system and make it work. I say
that
<BR>>because that trader would understand from experience what information
<BR>>the system was delivering to him, how to interpret and adjust it
<BR>>properly, and how to utilize the information to make a profit.
Some
<BR>>people use astrology, others the moon, some indicators developed by
<BR>>Wells Wilder or William's, some are seasonal traders and some use
<BR>>fundamentals. I knew a trader that had two ties. One for a bear
market
<BR>>when he was short and a different one for a bull market when he was
<BR>>long. That worked for him for he was able to spend 5 years
in Europe
<BR>>on his earnings.
<BR>>
<BR>>The true test of a system for sale is not if the party using it can
make
<BR>>money, show me your bank book, but whether someone who is taught the
<BR>>system can make money with it. If I was buying a system I would
ask,
<BR>>who can I contact who is using the system, and did you teach it to
him?
<BR>>AS far as a money back guarantee, that is ridiculous. If you
are
<BR>>selling information, once the party has it, it can be copied
and then
<BR>>the original returned for a refund. Intellectual property should
not
<BR>>carry a money back guarantee. It is not a stove or a refrigerator.
All
<BR>>a copyright does is prevent someone from reprinting it and selling
it,
<BR>>it does not stop someone from using the information for personal
<BR>>benefit.
<BR>>
<BR>>Have you ever seen the sign on a Port Potty. It may be ti--
to you but
<BR>>it is gold to us. A system is the same thing. No one can
make a
<BR>>consistent living selling some thing that doesn't work. The
word gets
<BR>>out to soon. Have a good week end. Ira.
<BR>></BLOCKQUOTE>
</HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Fri Mar 19 03:52:33 1999
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From: "Frank B. Tarr O.D." <ftarr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Day trading success
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Both posts read the same size in Netscape Messenger
( Communicator 4.5 ).
Frank Columbus, Ohio
nwinski wrote:
>
>
>
> Bob Heisler wrote:
>
> > I thought I would throw my two cents in on this discussion. First,
> > I find it quite amusing how often people will ask of others things
> > they would never consider doing themselves, i.e.. account statements
> > and the like. And then the people who refuse are labeled as
> > charlatans or some other derogatory term - and the folks doing the
> > name calling haven't even seen the product!!!!!
> >
> > NW: I find it quite amusing that anyone thinks that people are
> > going to bother to read a whole page of this
> > small type. I am now conditioned so that whenever I see the 10
> > point or less type, I just hit the ol' delete key.
> > By the way, I have 20-20 or better vision and I plan to keep it
> > that way. That is one reason I won't strain to read the small type.
> >
> > Squintingly,
> >
> > Norman
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I find it even more amusing that most of the people who label
> > others as charlatans are the same ones looking for some "system" to
> > make them successful. They demand guarantees, proof of performance,
> > etc. To me this reaks of the 90's tradition of finger pointing,
> > making excuses, looking for a handout instead of a handup, and
> > refusing to accept responsibility for your own actions - and is
> > quite repugnant. Trading is no different than any other profession
> > in that the best usually rise to the top (excluding nepotism).
> > There are only a few successful traders just like there are only a
> > few CEOs, CFOs, VP's, etc. Most people aspire to advance to these
> > levels, but only a few are successful in that journey. The ones who
> > do have passion and are willing to put forth the time and effort it
> > takes to be successful at anything. And they hold themselves
> > accountable for their own actions. No where are these qualities
> > more critical than in trading. As far as guarantees are concerned, I
> > would never offer one for several reasons. First, trading
> > successfully has much more to do with psychology than methods.
> > Granted you need a sound methodology to trade well, but a good
> > trader could trade profitably with a poor method and a poor trader
> > could lose money with a 'system' that was 100% accurate. Secondly,
> > printed materials, software, videos, etc., are easily copied and
> > distributed. I worked in the computer industry for 15 years and am
> > intimately familiar with software piracy. We have all done it and
> > are most likely guilty of it right now. And it is done everyday in
> > the Futures industry as well. Thirdly, there is no method that will
> > work for every trader. We all have to go through our own learning
> > process. I haven't purchased Bill's manual, but if I were going to
> > my goal would not be to find a complete turnkey system to make me
> > rich. I would purchase it with the hopes that there would be some
> > information there that could be incorporated into my own trading
> > style or method which would improve my trading. Nor would I ask for
> > a guarantee. I would do my due diligence before sending the check
> > and live with results. After all it was MY decision to purchase HIS
> > product. As Ira stated, intellectual property is not an appliance
> > or computer. I understand completely how difficult it is to find
> > quality information or products related to trading. And I also know
> > that there are numerous disreputable people out there just waiting
> > to take your money and provide nothing in return. However, it is
> > your responsibility to do your homework before making any purchase.
> > And if you still get taken, then learn from it and deal with it in
> > a professional and objective manner, and try not to make the same
> > mistake twice. Trade Well, Bob -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ira <ist@xxxxxx>
> > To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 4:19 PM
> > Subject: Day trading success
> > >I have seen so much discussion about people selling things and
> > other
> > >people screaming fraud, spam and show me your bank book. Because I
> > am
> > >successful, doesn't mean that you are going to be successful. The
> > >negative attitude here is derived from, I believe, I've been burned
> > so
> > >everyone selling anything is trying to take my money. If you are
> > >negative when you buy something and say it will not work, it won't
> > work
> > >because you won't let it work. If it worked you would be wrong
> > about it
> > >being a scam and that is something most people can't stand, to be
> > >wrong. I have spent a lot of money over the years on material that
> > I
> > >considered to have little value. Out of each I was able to derive
> > >something. It might only be to never use that type of trading
> > >methodology again because it didn't suit me. That is a lesson well
> >
> > >learned. I would be willing to say that any experienced,
> > successful
> > >trader could probably take any system and make it work. I say that
> >
> > >because that trader would understand from experience what
> > information
> > >the system was delivering to him, how to interpret and adjust it
> > >properly, and how to utilize the information to make a profit.
> > Some
> > >people use astrology, others the moon, some indicators developed by
> >
> > >Wells Wilder or William's, some are seasonal traders and some use
> > >fundamentals. I knew a trader that had two ties. One for a bear
> > market
> > >when he was short and a different one for a bull market when he was
> >
> > >long. That worked for him for he was able to spend 5 years in
> > Europe
> > >on his earnings.
> > >
> > >The true test of a system for sale is not if the party using it can
> > make
> > >money, show me your bank book, but whether someone who is taught
> > the
> > >system can make money with it. If I was buying a system I would
> > ask,
> > >who can I contact who is using the system, and did you teach it to
> > him?
> > >AS far as a money back guarantee, that is ridiculous. If you are
> > >selling information, once the party has it, it can be copied and
> > then
> > >the original returned for a refund. Intellectual property should
> > not
> > >carry a money back guarantee. It is not a stove or a
> > refrigerator. All
> > >a copyright does is prevent someone from reprinting it and selling
> > it,
> > >it does not stop someone from using the information for personal
> > >benefit.
> > >
> > >Have you ever seen the sign on a Port Potty. It may be ti-- to you
> > but
> > >it is gold to us. A system is the same thing. No one can make a
> > >consistent living selling some thing that doesn't work. The word
> > gets
> > >out to soon. Have a good week end. Ira.
> > >
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