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<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Verdana size=2>I thought I would throw my two
cents in on this discussion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>First, I find it quite amusing how often people
will ask of others things they would never consider doing themselves, i.e..
account statements and the like. And then the people who refuse are
labeled as charlatans or some other derogatory term - and the folks doing the
name calling haven't even seen the product!!!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>I find it even more amusing that most of the
people who label others as charlatans are the same ones looking for some
"system" to make them successful. They demand guarantees, proof
of performance, etc. To me this reaks of the 90's tradition of finger
pointing, making excuses, looking for a handout instead of a handup, and
refusing to accept responsibility for your own actions - and is quite
repugnant. </FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Trading is no different than any other profession
in that the best usually rise to the top (excluding nepotism). There are
only a few successful traders just like there are only a few CEOs, CFOs, VP's,
etc. Most people aspire to advance to these levels, but only a few are
successful in that journey. The ones who do have passion and are willing
to put forth the time and effort it takes to be successful at anything.
And they hold themselves accountable for their own actions. No where are
these qualities more critical than in trading. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>As far as guarantees are concerned, I would never
offer one for several reasons. First, trading successfully has much more
to do with psychology than methods. Granted you need a sound methodology
to trade well, but a good trader could trade profitably with a poor method and a
poor trader could lose money with a 'system' that was 100%
accurate.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Secondly, printed materials, software, videos,
etc., are easily copied and distributed. I worked in the computer industry
for 15 years and am intimately familiar with software piracy. We have all
done it and are most likely guilty of it right now. And it is done
everyday in the Futures industry as well. <FONT color=#000000>Thirdly,
there is no method that will work for every trader. We all have to go
through our own learning process.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>I haven't purchased Bill's manual, but if I were
going to my goal would not be to find a complete turnkey system to make me
rich. I would purchase it with the hopes that there would be some
information there that could be incorporated into my own trading style or method
which would improve my trading. Nor would I ask for a guarantee. I
would do my due diligence before sending the check and live with results.
After all it was <STRONG><U>MY</U></STRONG> decision to purchase
<STRONG><U>HIS</U></STRONG> product. As Ira stated, intellectual property
is not an appliance or computer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>I understand completely how difficult it is to
find quality information or products related to trading. And I also know
that there are numerous disreputable people out there just waiting to take your
money and provide nothing in return. However, it is your responsibility to
do your homework before making any purchase. And if you still get taken,
then learn from it and deal with it in a professional and objective
manner, and try not to make the same mistake twice.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Trade Well,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Bob</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Ira <<A
href="mailto:ist@xxxxxx";>ist@xxxxxx</A>><BR>To: RealTraders Discussion Group
<<A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR>Date:
Thursday, March 18, 1999 4:19 PM<BR>Subject: Day trading
success<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>>I have seen so much discussion about people
selling things and other<BR>>people screaming fraud, spam and show me your
bank book. Because I am<BR>>successful, doesn't mean that you are going
to be successful. The<BR>>negative attitude here is derived from, I
believe, I've been burned so<BR>>everyone selling anything is trying to take
my money. If you are<BR>>negative when you buy something and say it
will not work, it won't work<BR>>because you won't let it work. If it
worked you would be wrong about it<BR>>being a scam and that is something
most people can't stand, to be<BR>>wrong. I have spent a lot of money
over the years on material that I<BR>>considered to have little value.
Out of each I was able to derive<BR>>something. It might only be to
never use that type of trading<BR>>methodology again because it didn't suit
me. That is a lesson well<BR>>learned. I would be willing
to say that any experienced, successful<BR>>trader could probably take any
system and make it work. I say that<BR>>because that trader would
understand from experience what information<BR>>the system was delivering to
him, how to interpret and adjust it<BR>>properly, and how to utilize the
information to make a profit. Some<BR>>people use astrology, others the
moon, some indicators developed by<BR>>Wells Wilder or William's, some are
seasonal traders and some use<BR>>fundamentals. I knew a trader that
had two ties. One for a bear market<BR>>when he was short and a different one
for a bull market when he was<BR>>long. That worked for him for
he was able to spend 5 years in Europe<BR>>on his
earnings.<BR>><BR>>The true test of a system for sale is not if the party
using it can make<BR>>money, show me your bank book, but whether someone who
is taught the<BR>>system can make money with it. If I was buying a
system I would ask,<BR>>who can I contact who is using the system, and did
you teach it to him?<BR>>AS far as a money back guarantee, that is
ridiculous. If you are<BR>>selling information, once the party has
it, it can be copied and then<BR>>the original returned for a
refund. Intellectual property should not<BR>>carry a money back
guarantee. It is not a stove or a refrigerator. All<BR>>a
copyright does is prevent someone from reprinting it and selling it,<BR>>it
does not stop someone from using the information for
personal<BR>>benefit.<BR>><BR>>Have you ever seen the sign on a Port
Potty. It may be ti-- to you but<BR>>it is gold to us. A system
is the same thing. No one can make a<BR>>consistent living selling some
thing that doesn't work. The word gets<BR>>out to soon. Have a
good week end. Ira.<BR>></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Thu Mar 18 19:11:07 1999
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From: "Peter M. Beckwith" <capstone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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Subject: Re: Earl Adamy and Entries
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<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Earl:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>There is no question that entries are very, very important
tools for successful trading, but it still seems to me that every book, every
seminar or every system focusses primarily on indicators or on price patterns or
on a whole host of issues aside from the more complicated, yet necessary
component:money management. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>As an example, let's take the recent price activity in the
spoos. Today(3/18), the spoos had a solid trend day, with slight opening
weakness followed by a strong thrust upward and a breakout of the previous
highs. Many, many traders would have caught a portion of that move with a
limited number of contracts. If Trader A who usually trades 2 spoos
regardless of the price patterns had done his usual 2 lot trade he would have
had a good day provided he entered sometime in the morning and held till the
close. But if Trader B who varies his bet size and will trade 1-2 lots
during sideways choppy inside days and then will pyramid his position as the
market is moving in his favor, he might have had more than 10 contracts going
into the close today. While the market was moving in his favor he could
have booked profits at price specific levels and added on when the market held
intra-day support levels. The trade would have had a very positive
risk:reward because his core positions would still have some solid open equity
and his add-ons could be more aggressive.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I only point this out as an example because it seems to me
that unless you vary your bet size on your trades you are bound to get devoured
by the vig and by the emotional and psychological bugs that work into any
system.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Pete Beckwith</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Fri Mar 19 03:52:19 1999
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From: TTrue61470@xxxxxxx
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: T-Bond Manual Results/Att: Bill Eykyn
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To Bill Eykyn and others
I was going to e-mail Bill privately to let him know how I've been doing with
his trading method but after reading some of the recent posts I've decided to
do it here.
First I'd like to say I've known many traders over the years,successful and
not successful and none of them have ever shared their trading results with
me. Even close friends. I can only fiqure most people, including myself, are
very private about performance and money matters. And then there's the
superstition thing. If you tell everyone how well your doing, tommorrow you'll
get wacked.
Inspite of all this I've decided to bare my soul right here in front of God
and everybody.
I started learning Bill's T-bond method towards the end of February.I never
paper traded but instead have kept a notebook during the trading day to keep
track of what I saw, the time I saw it, and what I was thinking. Then I
compare my thoughts with what actually happened. Then I compare my notes with
the ongoing annotated charts on Bill,s web page.
At the end of February I only made four trades. the results were,-2,-4,+13, 0=
+7 ticks. Gradually I'm weening myself away from trading other markets to
focus more on Bonds so only fourteen trades so far in March. +7, -1 ,-2, +5,
+16, -3, 0, 0, +4, +2, -1, +5, +12= +43 ticks.
Some may think this is good ,some may think this is not a big deal.For me it's
a big deal. The number of ticks made and the time it took to make them is not
the main point here. I'm striving for consistency and measuring my success by
my own proggression through the learning proccess. What I'm excited about is
the risk reward ratio and my increasing understanding of whats going on.
Very Important:
My results don't come close to doing the method justice. I've never been a
very aggresive trader. I miss many good trades because I'm slow to get in or
wait to get a better price. With practice and experience 50 plus ticks is
possible in one day instead of three weeks. Yesterday 3/17 I sold 122.17(3
ticks from the high of the day)
my risk was 4ticks. My exit at 122.05 right before it went down to 121.27 was
not based on Bill's method. My exit was based on my itchy profit taking speed
dial finger and I wanted to log 12 ticks in my profit column.
Before I got the manual I made two trades in cattle based on what I could
fiqure out from the example chart on Bill's web site. I knew how to calculate
the pivot years ago but no one taught me how to use it properly. One trade was
a TTT and the other a stall above the pivot. Results +26 , +21 cattle ticks.
Risk was 5 ticks each.
I know this is a small sample size but since I'm so new to this style of
trading I think it carries more value than seeing the results of the expert
himself. This is a discretionary method. Different traders will take different
trades and have different results. In my opinion the key is to identify low
risk ,possibly high reward situations.
This method takes time ,study, and practice,and that probably goes for
mechanical systems too.
No wiggly lines were used to make these trades.
Like the bad guys said in "Treasure of the Sierra Madre"
Indicators? Indicators? We don't need no stinkin indicators!
Good Trading
Todd
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