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RT's. My 2 cents worth.
I have not read Elders book but also agree with Ramon regarding positive
decision making.
The only time I pull the triger is when I am looking at my screen and say to
myself
"This is a buy" or "This is a sell". AND my indicators confirm my thoughts.
If I said this is a loser and picked up the phone I would not be here for long.
I think positive and use very strict money management rules! You must.
David
BrentinUtahsDixie wrote:
> RT's,
>
> I have not read Elders Book but tend to agree with Ramon about the positive
> decision making process.
>
> Some years ago the book Psycho-Cybernetics was very popular and although I
> never read it at the time, I actually inherited a copy of it. After reading
> it, it made sense to me that you can, to some extent, program your
> subconscious mind to work for you by envisioning yourself doing and
> succeeding at what ever you have in mind.
>
> I have always thought that there is a fine line between so called "positive
> thinking" and self delusion. However, the way we learn is often a process of
> envisioning ourselves doing something and then actually practicing doing
> that until we have the confidence that we can do it. So I don't see this
> kind of rehearsal as self delusion if done properly and completely. Meaning
> that it must be done with the follow up planning, study, practice and the
> actual gaining of experience.
>
> Seeing oneself as being able to be successful should not IMHO prevent a
> person from seeing the business as something that must be carefully done in
> order to be successful. That may mean to many that they should think of an
> individual trade as a loser until it proves to be a winner.
>
> I cant believe that for example a quarter-back going into a football game
> would be helped by saying "I am a loser".
>
> Brent
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ramon <rbarros@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 6:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Wrong Lessons for trading.
>
> >Hi Guys
> >
> >Interesting thread here.
> >
> >There is no doubt that the psychological aspects of trading
> >are critical to a trader's success. For me what is important
> >is that a trader possess a set of empowering beliefs that
> >translate to actions which lead to success. While the
> >empowering beliefs may be universal, the actions tend
> >to be trader specific.
> >
> >Elder's approach works for him. It may or may not work
> >for others. It wouldn't work for me as my decision making
> >process gravitates towards the positive rather than the
> >negative.
> >
> >regards
> >
> >ray
> >
> >R Barros
> >101/25 Market Street
> >Sydney NSW 2000
> >Australia
> >
> >Voice: 61 2 92673470
> >Fax: 61 2 92673478
> >E-Mail: rbarros@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >----------
> >: From: Dennis L. Conn <dconn@xxxxxxxxx>
> >: To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >: Subject: Re: Wrong Lessons for trading.
> >: Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 12:14 PM
> >:
> >: Hi Dave,
> >:
> >: When I first read it, it seemed to be exactly the opposite of the
> >approach
> >: I would take to trade. But the thinking behind it begins to make sense if
> >: you can equate losing with alcoholism; according to Dr. Elder, your focus
> >: should be on transcending the behavioral patterns that cause you to lose
> >: consistently. If you have demonstrated a pattern that will inevitably
> >: destroy your account, he advises using the same approach as AA - instead
> >of
> >: standing up and introducing yourself as an alcoholic to a group of
> >people,
> >: he recommends 'introducing' yourself to your computer each trading day in
> >: the same way, substituting the word loser for alcoholic. By reminding
> >: oneself of the tendency, one can avoid it - at least that's what I get
> >from
> >: it.
> >:
> >: Since a lot of our problems in trading stem from ingrained behavior that
> >we
> >: have to transcend, and from habits of thought that we need to change,
> >maybe
> >: there's some merit to his approach. Maybe it's an intermediate step on
> >the
> >: path to becoming the person one needs to be in order to be consistently
> >: successful as a trader. Whether it works for everyone, I don't know; I do
> >: know that when I started trading, I dismissed the psychological aspect as
> >: unimportant. But these days I find myself more interested in that than in
> >: any possible profits, and see as much need to examine and learn more
> >about
> >: myself as I once saw to examine charts and learn analysis - maybe more.
> >:
> >: Regards,
> >:
> >: Dennis C.
> >:
> >: -----Original Message-----
> >: From: David Hunt <adest@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >: To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >: Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 19:28
> >: Subject: Re: Wrong Lessons for trading.
> >:
> >:
> >: >I must say when Dr Elder said in his Psychology Video say to yourself "I
> >am
> >: >a Loser" each day before trading, he lost me. Did anyone else have this
> >: >effect from the book?
> >: >
> >: >David Hunt
> >: >http://www.adest.com.au
> >: >
> >: >
> >: >----------
> >: >| From: RAY RAFFURTY <rraff@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >: >| To: tesla@xxxxxxx; RealTraders Discussion Group
> >: ><realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >: >| Subject: Re: Wrong Lessons for trading.
> >: >| Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 11:35 AM
> >: >|
> >: >| Elder's book is quite good, but contains only about 3 chapters
> >: >about
> >: >| the psychology of trading. The rest is devoted to descriptions and
> >: >methods
> >: >| of using some of the more basic and readily available indicators. He
> >: >then
> >: >| develops these into trading systems and presents some risk management
> >: >| techniques. After reading it you will probably want to go to some
> >more
> >: >| detailed texts on the subjects that interest you. For an excellent
> >book
> >: >on
> >: >| the psychology of trading try "The Disciplined Trader" by Mark
> >Douglas.
> >: >|
> >: >| Good luck
> >and
> >: >| good trading,
> >: >|
> >: >Ray
> >: >| Raffurty
> >: >|
> >: >| -----Original Message-----
> >: >| From: Terry S. Smith <tesla@xxxxxxx>
> >: >| To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >: >| Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 11:11 AM
> >: >| Subject: Re: Wrong Lessons for trading.
> >: >|
> >: >|
> >: >| >Have never read Elders, Trading for a Living, but I have heard great
> >: >things
> >: >| >about it, maybe I will add it to my trading library. E-mail me
> >privately
> >: >in
> >: >| >this matter.
> >: >| >-----Original Message-----
> >: >| >From: Mike Campbell <mcampbell@xxxxxx>
> >: >| >To: tesla@xxxxxxx <tesla@xxxxxxx>; realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >: >| ><realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >: >| >Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 8:54 AM
> >: >| >Subject: Re: Wrong Lessons for trading.
> >: >| >
> >: >| >
> >: >| >>Terry S. Smith writes:
> >: >| >>
> >: >| >>> The best book I have found to unlearn basic human nature is
> >MINDTRAPS
> >: >| >>> UNLOCKING THE KEY TO INVESTMENT SUCCESS By Roland Barach. Before
> >: >| >>> reading the book it did not occur to me that I needed to shift my
> >: >| >>> perspective 180 degrees to be successful. After reading it I
> >began
> >: >to
> >: >| >>> realize why I was struggling to making any money in my investing
> >: >| >>> persist. It lists 88 psychological snares or Mindtraps that we
> >must
> >: >| >>> unlearn to become successful in this business. The ISBN is
> >: >| >>> 0-935219-07-2. Happy trading,
> >: >| >>
> >: >| >>How would you rate this book with respect to Elder's "Trading for a
> >: >| >>Living"? I'm reading that now, and it's an eye-opener for me.
> >: >| >>
> >: >| >>
> >: >| >
> >: >|
> >: >|
> >
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