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RT's,
I have not read Elders Book but tend to agree with Ramon about the positive
decision making process.
Some years ago the book Psycho-Cybernetics was very popular and although I
never read it at the time, I actually inherited a copy of it. After reading
it, it made sense to me that you can, to some extent, program your
subconscious mind to work for you by envisioning yourself doing and
succeeding at what ever you have in mind.
I have always thought that there is a fine line between so called "positive
thinking" and self delusion. However, the way we learn is often a process of
envisioning ourselves doing something and then actually practicing doing
that until we have the confidence that we can do it. So I don't see this
kind of rehearsal as self delusion if done properly and completely. Meaning
that it must be done with the follow up planning, study, practice and the
actual gaining of experience.
Seeing oneself as being able to be successful should not IMHO prevent a
person from seeing the business as something that must be carefully done in
order to be successful. That may mean to many that they should think of an
individual trade as a loser until it proves to be a winner.
I cant believe that for example a quarter-back going into a football game
would be helped by saying "I am a loser".
Brent
-----Original Message-----
From: ramon <rbarros@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Wrong Lessons for trading.
>Hi Guys
>
>Interesting thread here.
>
>There is no doubt that the psychological aspects of trading
>are critical to a trader's success. For me what is important
>is that a trader possess a set of empowering beliefs that
>translate to actions which lead to success. While the
>empowering beliefs may be universal, the actions tend
>to be trader specific.
>
>Elder's approach works for him. It may or may not work
>for others. It wouldn't work for me as my decision making
>process gravitates towards the positive rather than the
>negative.
>
>regards
>
>ray
>
>R Barros
>101/25 Market Street
>Sydney NSW 2000
>Australia
>
>Voice: 61 2 92673470
>Fax: 61 2 92673478
>E-Mail: rbarros@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>----------
>: From: Dennis L. Conn <dconn@xxxxxxxxx>
>: To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>: Subject: Re: Wrong Lessons for trading.
>: Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 12:14 PM
>:
>: Hi Dave,
>:
>: When I first read it, it seemed to be exactly the opposite of the
>approach
>: I would take to trade. But the thinking behind it begins to make sense if
>: you can equate losing with alcoholism; according to Dr. Elder, your focus
>: should be on transcending the behavioral patterns that cause you to lose
>: consistently. If you have demonstrated a pattern that will inevitably
>: destroy your account, he advises using the same approach as AA - instead
>of
>: standing up and introducing yourself as an alcoholic to a group of
>people,
>: he recommends 'introducing' yourself to your computer each trading day in
>: the same way, substituting the word loser for alcoholic. By reminding
>: oneself of the tendency, one can avoid it - at least that's what I get
>from
>: it.
>:
>: Since a lot of our problems in trading stem from ingrained behavior that
>we
>: have to transcend, and from habits of thought that we need to change,
>maybe
>: there's some merit to his approach. Maybe it's an intermediate step on
>the
>: path to becoming the person one needs to be in order to be consistently
>: successful as a trader. Whether it works for everyone, I don't know; I do
>: know that when I started trading, I dismissed the psychological aspect as
>: unimportant. But these days I find myself more interested in that than in
>: any possible profits, and see as much need to examine and learn more
>about
>: myself as I once saw to examine charts and learn analysis - maybe more.
>:
>: Regards,
>:
>: Dennis C.
>:
>: -----Original Message-----
>: From: David Hunt <adest@xxxxxxxxxx>
>: To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>: Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 19:28
>: Subject: Re: Wrong Lessons for trading.
>:
>:
>: >I must say when Dr Elder said in his Psychology Video say to yourself "I
>am
>: >a Loser" each day before trading, he lost me. Did anyone else have this
>: >effect from the book?
>: >
>: >David Hunt
>: >http://www.adest.com.au
>: >
>: >
>: >----------
>: >| From: RAY RAFFURTY <rraff@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>: >| To: tesla@xxxxxxx; RealTraders Discussion Group
>: ><realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>: >| Subject: Re: Wrong Lessons for trading.
>: >| Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 11:35 AM
>: >|
>: >| Elder's book is quite good, but contains only about 3 chapters
>: >about
>: >| the psychology of trading. The rest is devoted to descriptions and
>: >methods
>: >| of using some of the more basic and readily available indicators. He
>: >then
>: >| develops these into trading systems and presents some risk management
>: >| techniques. After reading it you will probably want to go to some
>more
>: >| detailed texts on the subjects that interest you. For an excellent
>book
>: >on
>: >| the psychology of trading try "The Disciplined Trader" by Mark
>Douglas.
>: >|
>: >| Good luck
>and
>: >| good trading,
>: >|
>: >Ray
>: >| Raffurty
>: >|
>: >| -----Original Message-----
>: >| From: Terry S. Smith <tesla@xxxxxxx>
>: >| To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>: >| Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 11:11 AM
>: >| Subject: Re: Wrong Lessons for trading.
>: >|
>: >|
>: >| >Have never read Elders, Trading for a Living, but I have heard great
>: >things
>: >| >about it, maybe I will add it to my trading library. E-mail me
>privately
>: >in
>: >| >this matter.
>: >| >-----Original Message-----
>: >| >From: Mike Campbell <mcampbell@xxxxxx>
>: >| >To: tesla@xxxxxxx <tesla@xxxxxxx>; realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>: >| ><realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>: >| >Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 8:54 AM
>: >| >Subject: Re: Wrong Lessons for trading.
>: >| >
>: >| >
>: >| >>Terry S. Smith writes:
>: >| >>
>: >| >>> The best book I have found to unlearn basic human nature is
>MINDTRAPS
>: >| >>> UNLOCKING THE KEY TO INVESTMENT SUCCESS By Roland Barach. Before
>: >| >>> reading the book it did not occur to me that I needed to shift my
>: >| >>> perspective 180 degrees to be successful. After reading it I
>began
>: >to
>: >| >>> realize why I was struggling to making any money in my investing
>: >| >>> persist. It lists 88 psychological snares or Mindtraps that we
>must
>: >| >>> unlearn to become successful in this business. The ISBN is
>: >| >>> 0-935219-07-2. Happy trading,
>: >| >>
>: >| >>How would you rate this book with respect to Elder's "Trading for a
>: >| >>Living"? I'm reading that now, and it's an eye-opener for me.
>: >| >>
>: >| >>
>: >| >
>: >|
>: >|
>
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