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What about to use Oddballs system with NQ in data2?
Anybody rest it?
MarioT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Roos" <rosewood@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Bob Heisler" <BHEISLER@xxxxxxxxx>; "TaoOfDow"
<TaoOfDow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Rich Tuchow" <rtuchow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 2:59 AM
Subject: Re: Profit Taking --- Round 2 --- Other Alternatives
> Bob:
>
> Thanks for the helpful comments.
>
> Using a spread line based upon the values of ES-NQ we have found to be
> helpful. A simple formula such as this is useful:
>
> Input: Input1(Close of data1), Input2(Close of data2);
> Plot1(Input1*50 - Input2*20,"SpreadDiv");
>
> One can then develop ma's and stochastic studies of the spread using a
> longer time frame for the trend determination than for the trading trigger
> setup. Using the ma of the spread, one can easily see that the es is
> stronger than the nq for the particular time frame being visualized, when
> the short ma is above the long ma (when es is data1 and nq is data2).
>
> I will be interested in seeing if the new ER2 contract of the Electronic
> Russell 2000 will develop enough trading to be used in spreads. (It is
the
> first cme contract using 3 characters for the base symbol, the cme site
> says. The present bmi contract symbol would be ER2 Z1).
>
> For any interested, the link for info on that is
> http://www.cme.com/products/index/abouteminirussell.cfm
>
> Don
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Heisler" <BHEISLER@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "TaoOfDow" <TaoOfDow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Rich Tuchow"
> <rtuchow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: <omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 4:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Profit Taking --- Round 2 --- Other Alternatives
>
>
> One addition to the Mini thread...take a look at the NQ if you haven't
> already done so. I've found the NQ to be greatly preferable to the ES on
> most occasions and only trade the ES when I think I have to, and then
> grudgingly so. The margin requirements are about the same but the NQ is
> normally cleaner, has less noise and trends better - all of which make it
> easier to manage a trade.
>
> It moves about 3 points to every 1 point on the ES right now, so during
the
> day I am always looking to see if it's easier to get 6 points on the NQ or
2
> points on the ES, and in which direction(s). These aren't profit
> objectives, just my way of determining which contract is best to trade in
> the current environment. Being willing and able to trade both/either can
> come in very handy especially on those days where the Dow/Nasdaq diverge
> (buy the stronger/sell the weaker). You may also find that the best
trading
> conditions usually exist when the Nasdaq is leading the charge.
>
> Bob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "TaoOfDow" <TaoOfDow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Rich Tuchow" <rtuchow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: <omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 10:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Profit Taking --- Round 2 --- Other Alternatives
>
>
> > Dear Rich,
> >
> > It has been fruitful to me to consider several possibilities that are
"out
> of
> > the box" that you have considered --- some of these have been mentioned
by
> > others, notably Ted & Bob.
> >
> > 1. Trading multiple contracts, each under its own parameters. The
fellow
> in my
> > mind most associated with this idea is Joe Ross, of "Ross Hook" fame,
who
> > advocated trading threes: taking one off after making one's commission
> expenses;
> > the second off after making a few, predetermined number of points; and
the
> last
> > off upon hitting a trailing stop set up to catch a substantial move.
Ted
> > elaborates on this specifically and Bob generally. I recall Bill
Williams
> > saying that his hardest time trading was trading one-lots (and
secondarily
> any
> > fixed number of contracts, all or nothing), and I find it emotionally
> easier to
> > trade several contracts, each with its own rules, than one size all or
> nothing.
> > That having been said, I find it easier still to trade one size all or
> nothing
> > very tightly (see #2 below) as well as varying the size of my entry
> depending on
> > the size of the anticipated move. This is one of these situations like
> Justice
> > Stewart who in answer to the question, "What is obscenity?" Replied: "I
> can't
> > give you a definition, but I know it when I see it." I can't give you
an
> > objective description of "This is the start of a big move." But every
now
> and
> > then, something goes off in me when I see something on the screen, and
> what goes
> > off in me says "Start of big move --- This is an opportunity --- Be
> courageous
> > --- Don't fuck up and play chicken --- Commit!!!" And for reasons that
I
> can't
> > explain, my feelings more often than not (much more often than not) will
> be
> > realized. I just wish I had some control over whatever it is that goes
> off in
> > me. It just happens, often without my expecting it, in fact when I
> usually
> > least expect it. I've learned that it occurs, if at all, only when I
have
> let
> > it go and am not looking for it. For a control freak such as myself who
> was
> > trained and has worked largely in analytic environments, it has been a
> real
> > challenge for me to get out of my analytic and into my intuitive. All I
> can say
> > is that I seem to be more successful as a trader when I rely less on my
> analytic
> > and more on my intuitive, although this has indeed been a long,
difficult,
> and
> > stressful learning experience for me, and I still have much yet to learn
> with
> > it.
> >
> > 2. Trading in and out through a move. Bob elaborates on this. The
great
> > majority of my larger "trades" (a la 10-15 point "trades") consist of
> multiple,
> > smaller trades --- they hit my profit targets, I get out, and look to
get
> back
> > in, just like with a new trade, although in the same direction as the
> last. I
> > basically don't use stops, especially trailing stops. I get out mostly
on
> > profit targets, a small pullback upon the failure to hit a profit
target,
> or a
> > small gain/loss or scratch following entry. The market does what I
expect
> > (occasionally) or I'm outa' there (much more often than I would
prefer ---
> God I
> > ain't). Bob has some cogent comments about this, which reduce down for
me
> to
> > "Plan your trades, and trade your plan." I can guarantee you that when
I
> start
> > messin' with my plan during the day, generally as a result of my
> perception of
> > what has transpired for better or worse with my trading earlier that
day,
> I am
> > colluding with my own prospective failure. For me at least, I just
don't
> have
> > what it takes to both think and trade, and when I try to do both, I
shoot
> myself
> > in the foot and will soon (altogether too soon) regret my extravagance.
> Another
> > lesson that has been hard for me to accept, and I'm still working on it.
> >
> > 3. Trading selected hours. In my experience, there is more opportunity
> for
> > profits available for trading during the first and last hour or two of
the
> > market day than during the middle of the day (the "noon balloon"). No
> wonder,
> > all you have to do is spend a day or two on the floor and watch its
> population
> > fluctuate during the day. It's packed at the open, and after an hour or
> two,
> > sometimes you could roll a bowling ball from from one side to the other
> and not
> > hit anyone. Then the guys come back from lunch for the last hour or two
> before
> > "quittin' time." If I were looking for larger moves, these would be the
> times
> > that I would look for them.
> >
> > 4. Trading selected days. In my experience, it pays to be at my desk
> > especially on Mondays and Fridays as opposed to other days of the week
> (Goldspan
> > days excepted, among others). If I were looking for larger moves, these
> (and
> > Greenspan days, among others) would be the days that I would look for
> them.
> >
> > 5. Developing ways to discern, upon the initiation of a move, whether
the
> move
> > will peter out after 3-5 points or extend further.
> >
> > 6. Developing ways to discern, after a move has gone 3-5 points,
whether
> it
> > will now peter out or extend further.
> >
> > Frankly, I find entries more problematic than exits. The exits just
seem
> to pop
> > out at me. It's the entries that I struggle with. I continue to
attempt
> on
> > entry to buy the bottom tick or two or sell the top tick or two. I
gotta
> get
> > over that. I'm driving myself nuts with it.
> >
> > Lastly, I was surprised to read that you identified yourself as "an S&P
> ...
> > trader", in the sense that I was surprised to read that you are trading
> the S&P
> > and curious why you had not switched to the S&P E-mini. I guess I am
> going to
> > expose my naivity and ignorance here. In my experience, my (what I have
> come to
> > see as a long overdue) shift from trading the S&P to the S&P E-mini has
> been
> > nothing but positive. Perhaps you trade much more size that I or have
> other
> > reasons for doing so. Although I traded very little, I used to trade
the
> S&P
> > through a commercial/wholesale desk that routinely traded 100s and
> occasionally
> > 1000s (I can remember standing in back of the head of the trading desk
> when he
> > sold 1000, old $500 contracts during a fast market down and his worst
fill
> was
> > half a point off his desired price) --- my max was 10-lots, which was
> very, very
> > seldom; my usual was onesies and, if I was really feeling my cojones,
> twosies.
> > That desk gave me what seemed to me to be great service at reasonable
> rates
> > ($17/car). To my surprise and increasing pleasure, all in all (speed,
> > commissions, fills, relative absence of human interaction, etc.), I have
> come to
> > prefer my experience with the E-mini and electronic trading relative to
> open
> > outcry trading. Would you be willing to tell me what keeps you trading
> the S&P
> > as opposed to the E-mini? Maybe you are a member or a lessee?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Richard
> >
> >
> > Rich Tuchow wrote:
> >
> > > I am an S&P day trader and keep going back and forth in my mind my
exit
> > > strategy. There are 2 schools of thought 1)let profits run 2)don't
try
> to
> > > be a pig on every trade. It seems that every time I grab the 3-5
point
> > > profit the trade goes on to 10-15 points and every time I let profits
> run,
> > > the 3-5 point profit disappears. I am not particularly found of
> trailing
> > > stops because you have to be willing to give back a fair amount of
> profit.
> > > Others use a staggered exit strategy such as take 1 contract off at 3
> points
> > > another at 5 another at 8 etc.
> > >
> > > I would be interested in hearing only from successful S&P day traders
> which
> > > school of thought they follow.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> >
>
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