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I believe Hargrave and Yates are still developing Traderware based on
correspondence
that I received from Charles on 3/22/01:
--------Message----------
I just wanted to drop you a line and let you know that I am back in town
form vacation. If you would like to give me a call concerning Traderware I
should be available most any time, if I'm on the phone you can leave me a
message and I will call you back.
We are very interested in talking to you about Traderware.
Best Regards,
Charles Hargrave
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Rollins [mailto:kentr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 12:50 AM
To: OmegaList
Subject: Re: Omega or Traderware???
John, you've posted good information over the years to this and other lists.
One question I would ask myself (or in your case, Yates and Hargrave) is
"Why did TraderWare Inc fail?" That's really important if you are planning
to spend any of your time on that piece of software and more importantly, if
you are going to represent the software to large financial institutions.
I bought TW right out of the gate because Mark was passionate about it and
passionate about Omega having it's collective head up it's collective ass.
I thought there was something wrong with the fact that the software appeared
so quickly on the scene but I bought it mostly for one reason: I wanted to
see a good alternative succeed. There had been hints on this list that
large institutions had toed the line and if I remember correctly, it was
stated plainly that TraderWare had gone profitable before the first
single-user license had been sold. It sounded like a good bet.
I never blamed Mark because it seemed like he had done what he could in the
promotional, marketing and business areas (and my assumption: getting
institutional backing) and Yates was the one who wasn't answering the phone
at 4:30 on weekdays and Yates was the one who didn't get back to me after he
said he would on several occassions and Yates was the one who never got my
particular installation working. But Yates also told me that he didn't get
his emails returned by Kent Gryzich which I find credible but which just
ticks me off more because it's just one more case of a piece of software out
there that people pay for but which isn't supported in spite of it's
humongous price tag. I had several phone conversations with Steve Yates and
he seemed like a reasonably good programmer and responded fairly quickly on
a couple of things. But competency and dogged perseverance are not the same
thing and I know firsthand that starting a business takes both.
After pursuing things with Steve for a while, I decided to let the
unanswered calls and emails go. TraderWare was either going to succeed or
it wasn't. I'm not one of those who thinks that the price of a piece of
software gives me a claim on a person's life, but I was certainly bummed out
that this alternative was off to such a rocky start.
The one real hesitation that I had when I bought TraderWare was that Mark
has at times displayed what we could call a mercurial personality. But
after a certain post by a certain person on a certain list explaining
certain things in a rather round-about manner, it seemed that Mark got
out-mercurialized. Maybe I interpreted things wrong (there was plenty of
room for interpretation in the post), but it seemed like one party wanted to
keep TraderWare on course and the other party wanted to just keep TraderWare
and do something else. Competency and dogged perseverance are not the same
thing.
The version of TraderWare that I used was not ready for most institutions.
If Steve Yates wants to make a go of it, I would a) find an independent
source of income, b) continue polishing TraderWare (it needs an interface
overhaul and needs to be hooked up to M3 (completely this time) if you
aren't going to develop a database for it), c) needs a publicity overhaul.
Start a website, let people download and use it for free for a year or so
while you fix it for free, then once (if) you have a stable product and (if)
enough people using it, start charging. But that route takes dogged
perseverance. Do you have it?
And John, there's still that question "Why did TraderWare Inc fail?" Maybe
you already have the answer. I don't know. Maybe you only have half the
answer. Just be sure you know exactly who and what you're dealing with
especially if you're going to go around representin'. More than buying
TraderWare, I regret that it didn't succeed. I also regret being short
1,000 shares of Schering-Plough on Friday when David Faber mentioned that it
might be a buyout target. They both cost me about the same thing but
atleast the trade was over quickly and I know exactly what went wrong.
Right now I just like it every time an Omega sales-weasel calls me and says
"Hey, would you like to try TradeStation Pro?" So much fun, and they are
paying for the call.
Let's be careful out there.
Kent
-----Original Message-----
From: I4Lothian@xxxxxxx <I4Lothian@xxxxxxx>
To: omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx <omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Saturday, March 24, 2001 4:44 PM
Subject: Omega or Traderware???
If parties on this list were interested in buying a trading platform
company,
you should be considering Traderware as well.
First let me state though that I don't say this from a completely subjective
basis. I have been in talks with Charles Hargrave and Steve Yates to
represent them to license the Traderware product to potential resellers. I
have not yet signed an agreement though.
Charles and Steve are wanting to license the product to some entity. I have
tentatively approached a couple of banks, brokerage firms and quote vendors
about the product.
Actually, there are two products. One is the full bodied Traderware, which
runs on a quote.com feed. The second is Traderware Lite, which connects to
another feed which escapes me, (NAQ?). Traderware light was designed for
brokerage firms and systems trading operations which want to offer canned
hard programmed systems, with no backtesting or VB programing capability.
One of the most vexing problems for Traderware is that it needs to develop a
user community committed to furthering the product. We have such a
community
right here.
Another problem is that so many people are hung up on blaming Mark Brown for
this or that, that they are missing the larger picture and opportunity.
Here is a pretty good product, with a few issues, but not insurmountable. I
know Steve has been steadily working on some of the issues but has withheld
updating the system until a licensing or buyer could be found. Why break
(read upgrade) the system as it stands if there is no payoff for it just
yet?
For the record, I like Mark Brown. But I am eclectic enough in my view of
people that I can look beyond the bad and see the good. Mark is not without
his faults. But he also has some very strong points too. I consider Mark a
friend and wish him well in his future endeavors. Personally, I think Mark
is working on something big and being very disciplined and focused on it.
He
is a smart guy and is smart enough to know one of his weaknesses is trying
to
do too many things all at the same time.
But this is not about Mark Brown, or Steve Yates or Charles Hargrave. Mark
has no legal interest in Traderware any more, from what I have been told.
This post is about an analytical trading tool that is out there looking for
a
champion. Is this an opportunity? Would turning Traderware into an Open
Source project be something to consider? How about making TradeWars LITE
shareware and retailing the full version.
The point is we all want an analytical trading platform that we can use and
prosper with. If we are thinking creatively, Traderware should thrown into
the mix.
Again, I am not completely subjective on the subject because I have been
offered an opportunity to help market this product. That is not a done deal
though and I am not really concerned about my interests should a quality
alternative arise from parties here. If something were to come from the
Omega list, it would be more about community interest than self-interests,
IMHO.
Regards,
John J. Lothian
Disclosure: Futures trading involves financial risk, lots of it!
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