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**Brian Wrote:
Andrew Wrote:
"You're obviously not a discretionary daytrader working on 5 min. bars, so
you can be excused for insisting on real time results."
**Why do you say this?
**Actually it's funny you should say this because I do trade off 5 minutes
charts in Bonds and my methodology uses descretion based on
support/resistanc, time of day, etc. I also trade bonds longer term (a few
days). And yes I do trade S+P's (30', 5', and 1') in so called day trade
fashion and longer term (hold overnight) but not as much as bonds. I've
traded Bonds more than any other market so I do speak with fair experience
on the subject.
**I'm sure that my method is just as "intense" as your method or even
Bill's. I can't imagine it being much more intense. But overtime I've
learned to recognize and tolerate longer term trades that reduces the stress
level.
**Since you don't' have a lot of experience in bonds, let me draw some basic
comparisons for you. S+P's trade much faster than bonds do. Bonds move
like molasses comapred to S+P's. While generally you have to watch S+P's
more closely than bonds there's PLENTY of time even trading 5-30 minute
trades to post a quick message to the Mark or the list or whoever. It takes
just seconds to do this and isn't going to draw you away from your computer.
This isn't a good excuse for Bill's silence on this issue.
Andrew Wrote:
"All of the above leads me to believe that no one, trading the way that he
does, has the time to post real time results. And posting those results a
few minutes after the start of the trade, even if he had the time, would
likely bring a deluge of accusations of fraud and manipulation from some of
the knee-jerkers on this list (present company excepted)!
If you want to hang the man, do so for his alleged spamming, not for his
lack of real time results."
I don't know how long you've been trading S+P's or how long you've been
trading in general but I can assure you that for anyone that has been
trading as long as Bill has has gotten past the feelings of stress and
"intenseness". He's referred to them as "Boaring bonds." I think, and
other members have concurred, that if a person wants the privilege of
posting to the list, they should at least take some time to let the list see
real time results. If this means not trading their account for a few days
then so be it. It a small price to pay for the privilege of reaching a
concetrated audience like this one.
But besides this, I disagree with you that even trading off 5-30' charts
it's impossible to send a signal to Mark Brown. All you would have to do is
type in a quick statement like So yes I thikn the man should be hung out
to dry for his cheapass marketing tactics and then refusal to prove his
method really does work aside from getting a few direct or indirect
aquaitences to tell everybody what a cash bonanza his method is. Shoot,
that lady didn't even have the guts to put real money on the line with his
methods.
If his method is so subjective then how the hell can newbie use it
succefsully. That's the essence of subjectivity -- experience.
"Buy at 125^26" and shoot it off to Mark. You can keep your browser running
in the background. This takes less time than calling your broker to place a
trade.
I FIND THIS CONTRADICTION EXTREMELY ALARMING. HE'S TARGETING NEWBIES WITH
HIS BOOK BUT HIS METHODS RELY ON SUBJECTIVITY MORE THAN MECHANICAL
OBJECTIVITY. AND NEWBIES MORE THAN ANY OTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE NEED A
MECHANICAL TECHNIQUE TO TRADE BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE EXPERIENCE TO
TRADE SUBJETCIVELY.
MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, A NEWBIE WILL BUY THE BOOK AND THEN WATCH THEIR ACCOUNT
DWINDLE AWAY TO NOTHING.
AND IF BILL CAN'T DO IT THEN GET ONE HIS PAPER TRADING NEWBIE FRIENDS TO
POST THE SIGNALS. EITHER WAY THEY WON'T AND HE CAN'T BECAUSE HIS METHOD IS
NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER SUBJECTIVE SYSTEM THAT HAS BEEN SOLD IN THE PAST
AND ENDED UP DRANING WAY MORE ACCOUNTS THAN IT'S PADDED.
Either way, if you're going to use the list to make money you had better
exepct to pay a small price and prove yourself, anything less is totally
unacceptable.
Brian.
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Nopper [mailto:anopper@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 1998 10:59 AM
To: 'Brian Massey'; List, Omega
Subject: RE: Spammers Taking Over Omega List
Brian,
You're obviously not a discretionary daytrader working on 5 min. bars, so
you can be excused for insisting on real time results.
As a daytrader (S&P, not Bonds), using methods not unlike Bill Eykyn's, I
can attest to the difficulty in providing real time signals. Based upon
what I have seen from the various gif's posted by him, his is not a system
like those sold by most of the vendors that lurk within this list, but a
method that involves some degree of subjectivity and is near to impossible
to computerize. Like mine, his method of trading would involve reacting
instantly to a particular price action, be it a trendline break, pattern
breakout, double bottom, whatever. Likely, the next 5 to 30 minutes would
be spent managing the trade in an extremely intense fashion, involving
input from a number of sources, including measured objectives, support and
resistance areas, elapsed time, risk to reward ratios, fear and greed.
All of the above leads me to believe that no one, trading the way that he
does, has the time to post real time results. And posting those results a
few minutes after the start of the trade, even if he had the time, would
likely bring a deluge of accusations of fraud and manipulation from some of
the knee-jerkers on this list (present company excepted)!
If you want to hang the man, do so for his alleged spamming, not for his
lack of real time results.
No affiliation, etc.........
Andrew Nopper
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Massey [SMTP:bnm03@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 1998 1:33 AM
To: List, Omega
Subject: RE: Spammers Taking Over Omega List
...snip...
The Bill Elkyn incident is a perfect example. He has posted for months
about his prfitable approach to bond trading yet when invited to post real
time results to prove the effectiveness of his methods, he has yet to
accept. How reliable can his method be if he is unwilling to demonstrate
to others the effectivenes of his approach?
...snip...
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