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This post makes reference to a commercial product in response to a question
and answer posted here today. If you are going to be offended by the
commercial part of this post - Use DELETE KEY NOW.
Thank you Hans for your last Award bestowed on me for this same subject.
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At 10:32 PM 7/22/98 -0400, Chris Lober wrote in response to Robert:
>You have a number of different options, with a couple points to keep in
>mind:
>Your options are:
>
>1. Load a couple days previous to the simulation date, and simply pan
>through the chart bar by bar.
This is crude, very limited in function and accomplishes very little in my
experience. Likely is you already remember the days data anyway and are
really just fooling yourself to think it is a legitimate trading simulation.
It's like looking at a chart after you have already looked at the chart.
Seeing trades is easy after the fact just after you've looked at the chart.
Real time's much different.
>
>2. Reset your computer clock, and run the Omega offline server.
>Apparently, by loading a previous day, it will scroll through the chart
>according to the computer clock as if you were trading that day. I have
>never used this method, but it would seem that it could be used with
>multiple charts concurrently.
Try it and see how you like it. It doesn't work very well at all and you
miss the whole aspect of entering trades without the benefit of hindsight
because likely is you remember the previous day anyway and there is no order
entry feature.
>
>3. Purchase Virtualtrader. This is a simulation tool, expressly designed
>for Omega Tradestation/Supercharts RT that will pan multiple charts bar by
>bar. Also has order entry ability. Very expensive- somewhere around $2,400
>if I remember. http://www.titantrading.com
It's now very Inexpensive. The price has dropped a lot and new features and
data added - see below.
>4. Purchase TradeLab, and use the charting module to load data from your
>Omega server either tic by tic, or have it pan the chart bar by bar. Full
>details are a little sketchy, but the developer has promised it will be
>relatively easy to accomplish. Should be released soon.
>http://www.sciapp.com
This implementation is missing the trade entry multiple chart time
sychronization features and report generating features that VT has and also
doesn't work with the new Rina Product sold by Omega like VT does. VT has
the benefit of Bob Brickey's professional review and testing and advice in
final development over a year ago.
VirtualTrader is now priced at $195 EOD and $495 for the new intraday
SuperCharts version and $995 for the intraday TradeStation version. They
trade down to a resolution of 1 minute bars and feature multiple market time
multiple chart synchronization. In TradeStation it runs in 3.5 and 4.0 and
will also be released for 5.0 on an upgrade. The new main versions come
bundled with a ton of tape reading tick data for S&P 500, bond, and currency
traders and with intraday stock data on a few high volume NASDAQ and NYSE
stocks to test daytrading stock methods like Hit and Run trading methods and
gary Smith's and Linda Rashke's methods.
Omega Research magazine review a while ago by Charles Mizrahi said it was
the best trading simulator out there. Technical Analysis of Stocks and
Commodities magazine will be featuring a review of the product at the end of
August 1998 by Technical Editor John Sweeney who said it was fun and worked
well.
Example performance summaries for actual intraday stock trading simulations
on a high volume NASDAQ stock CISCO is are printed below. VT is a mature
product. Bob Brickey helped test it and shake out the bugs last year. VT has
helped our own actual realtime trading results, in the design of systems, to
test complex methods, expand and really understand stop loss management and
money management and more recently learning to daytrade stocks.
Daytraders and position traders will recover the price of the software many
many times over through better system development and better skill
development in trade entry, stop loss management, money management,
intermarket analysis and in stock daytrading and reduced price.
We're making 4% to 7% per month daytrading high volume stocks in the new
stock traders SC TS daytraders version using 50% margin and trading 1000
lots practicing basic breakout methods on 15 minute, half hour and hourly
bars, running with a simple stop loss management system and by trading to
the equity curve.
This is one the hottest training products available for TradeStation and
SuperCharts for new and seasoned professional traders but the price was too
high before. If you arev still learning to trade give yourself a break and
get it. Now it's a laydown for short term payback on the purchase price. The
best thing is you can test any method, indicator or system without any
programming. Also trainig and practice and system development and method
validation can be done at greatly compressed time and cost compared to using
Auditrack approaches or some programming approaches. Auditrack has its
place but is way too slow in training, testing and practicing, by comparison.
There is no real money in the sale of this software. The money payback is
comes from improved trading results. VT cost over US$200,000 and took two
years to develop. Michael Gossland was the author he is a professional
engineer and Master of Physics and it shows in the quality of the software,
which is a VisualBasic implemention.
The real time version, called TradeTracker, which allows us to enter trades
in realtime my clicking the mouse on the price charts in realtime is great
for realtime S&P 500, bond, currency, and stock daytrading practice or
whatever elae you like to daytrade or position trade. Demand for that
version was very poor - nobody wanted to pay anything for it. So it was
never released.
Call John Austin at 250 751 8959 if you are interested in VirtualTrader:
email jaustin@xxxxxxxxxxx
Example daytrading simulation trading off fifteen minute bars on CISCO -
please disregard the last trade, it was a mistake entered at the close by
accident and I never bothered to edit the error in the results.
This example used a simple breakout/tape stock index reading method derived
from S&P 500 daytrading with a simple stop loss approach that seemed to work
over several NASDAQ stocks we tested. We are now looking at trying to
incorporate NASDAQ level 2 information but have a ways to go still. Miles
Dunbar is an expert in this stock and commodity daytrading area and he is
helping us. (If you need his help on anything in TS or SC and want a good
reference for his professional EL programing and consulting services, send
an e-mail.
We allowed more than adequate commissions per share trading 1000 lots on
margin of 50% to get the performance stats. Several other trading
simulations produced similar results that we could not easily code up.
Please pardon any spelling mistakes it's late.
VirtualTrader CSCO-15 min 04/01/98 - 05/01/98
Performance Summary: All Trades
Total net profit $ 27405.00 Open position P/L $ 0.00
Gross profit $ 34495.00 Gross loss $ -7090.00
Total # of trades 25 Percent profitable 64%
Number winning trades 16 Number losing trades 9
Largest winning trade $ 9900.00 Largest losing trade $ -1520.00
Average winning trade $ 2155.94 Average losing trade $ -787.78
Ratio avg win/avg loss 2.74 Avg trade(win & loss) $ 1096.20
Max consec. winners 6 Max consec. losers 3
Avg # bars in winners 26 Avg # bars in losers 5
Max intraday drawdown $ -29375.00
Profit factor 4.87 Max # contracts held 10000
Account size required $ 379375.00 Return on account 7%
Performance Summary: Long Trades
Total net profit $ 27815.00 Open position P/L $ 0.00
Gross profit $ 33035.00 Gross loss $ -5220.00
Total # of trades 21 Percent profitable 71%
Number winning trades 15 Number losing trades 6
Largest winning trade $ 9900.00 Largest losing trade $ -1520.00
Average winning trade $ 2202.33 Average losing trade $ -870.00
Ratio avg win/avg loss 2.53 Avg trade(win & loss) $ 1324.52
Max consec. winners 6 Max consec. losers 2
Avg # bars in winners 28 Avg # bars in losers 7
Max intraday drawdown $ -29375.00
Profit factor 6.33 Max # contracts held 10000
Account size required $ 379375.00 Return on account 7%
Performance Summary: Short Trades
Total net profit $ -410.00 Open position P/L $ 0.00
Gross profit $ 1460.00 Gross loss $ -1870.00
Total # of trades 4 Percent profitable 25%
Number winning trades 1 Number losing trades 3
Largest winning trade $ 1460.00 Largest losing trade $ -1290.00
Average winning trade $ 1460.00 Average losing trade $ -623.33
Ratio avg win/avg loss 2.34 Avg trade(win & loss) $ -102.50
Max consec. winners 1 Max consec. losers 2
Avg # bars in winners 2 Avg # bars in losers 3
Max intraday drawdown $ -2290.00
Profit factor 0.78 Max # contracts held 2000
Account size required $ 72290.00 Return on account -1%
===============
Trade by Trade Listing
VirtualTrader CSCO-15 min 04/01/98 - 05/01/98
Date Time Type Cnts Price Signal Name Entry P/L Cumulative
04/01/98 10:15am Buy 5000 68^0
04/01/98 11:00am LExit 5000 68^4 $ 2400.00 $ 2400.00
04/01/98 11:45am Buy 2000 68^5
04/01/98 12:45pm LExit 2000 68^6 $ 210.00 $ 2610.00
04/01/98 1:45pm Sell 2000 68^4
04/01/98 2:30pm SExit 2000 68^5 $ -290.00 $ 2320.00
04/01/98 2:30pm Buy 2000 68^5
04/01/98 3:15pm LExit 2000 68^7 $ 460.00 $ 2780.00
04/02/98 10:30am Buy 2000 69^3
04/02/98 11:00am LExit 2000 69^5 $ 460.00 $ 3240.00
04/02/98 1:45pm Buy 2000 70^1
04/02/98 2:00pm LExit 2000 70^1 $ -40.00 $ 3200.00
04/03/98 9:45am Buy 2000 70^2
04/03/98 10:00am LExit 2000 70^6 $ 960.00 $ 4160.00
04/03/98 1:15pm Buy 5000 71^1
04/03/98 3:00pm LExit 5000 71^3 $ 1150.00 $ 5310.00
04/06/98 9:45am Sell 2000 71^2
04/06/98 10:15am SExit 2000 70^4 $ 1460.00 $ 6770.00
04/06/98 1:00pm Buy 5000 69^4
04/15/98 12:15pm LExit 5000 70^3 $ 4275.00 $ 11045.00
04/07/98 10:45am Buy 5000 68^3
04/15/98 12:15pm LExit 5000 70^3 $ 9900.00 $ 20945.00
04/15/98 2:30pm Buy 2000 70^3
04/16/98 9:45am LExit 2000 70^7 $ 960.00 $ 21905.00
04/16/98 10:30am Sell 2000 70^0
04/16/98 11:00am SExit 2000 70^1 $ -290.00 $ 21615.00
04/16/98 2:15pm Buy 2000 70^0
04/20/98 10:45am LExit 2000 72^3 $ 4710.00 $ 26325.00
04/20/98 11:30am Buy 2000 72^4
04/20/98 1:00pm LExit 2000 72^3 $ -290.00 $ 26035.00
04/21/98 12:30pm Buy 2000 72^6
04/22/98 9:45am LExit 2000 73^4 $ 1460.00 $ 27495.00
04/22/98 1:00pm Buy 2000 73^4
04/22/98 3:30pm LExit 2000 73^5 $ 210.00 $ 27705.00
04/23/98 2:45pm Buy 2000 72^1
04/24/98 10:15am LExit 2000 72^7 $ 1460.00 $ 29165.00
04/24/98 3:45pm Buy 1000 71^6
04/27/98 9:45am LExit 1000 70^2 $ -1520.00 $ 27645.00
04/27/98 3:15pm Buy 2000 70^2
04/28/98 3:15pm LExit 2000 69^6 $ -1040.00 $ 26605.00
04/29/98 12:00pm Buy 2000 71^7
04/30/98 10:15am LExit 2000 73^4 $ 3210.00 $ 29815.00
04/30/98 10:45am Buy 2000 73^6
04/30/98 12:45pm LExit 2000 74^3 $ 1210.00 $ 31025.00
04/30/98 2:30pm Buy 2000 73^6
04/30/98 3:15pm LExit 2000 73^2 $ -1040.00 $ 29985.00
04/30/98 3:15pm Buy 2000 73^6
04/30/98 4:00pm LExit 2000 73^1 $ -1290.00 $ 28695.00
04/30/98 4:00pm Sell 2000 73^1
05/01/98 10:15am SExit 2000 73^6 $ -1290.00 $ 27405.00
>> This has been discussed before but I never got the answer to it so I'm
>> going to ask it again. I have a real need to watch the market just like I
>> do during trading times for practice and code writing. To look at
>> the whole
>> chart after the data is past is great but its deceptive in my
>> opinion. What
>> looks like a child could do can't in real time because it looks so much
>> different with half the puzzle missing. Now the question is there a way to
>> use old date from S and have it feed through Left to right to
>> simulate real
>> trading using past data. If not then somebody that is smart enough to do
>> this could make a fortune providing this feature for S.
*********** Not true Robert, nobody makes a fortune selling Omega add-ons,
only by trading.
>I wonder why Omega
>> hasn't done this already would be a very valuable learning, teaching and
>> selling feature for them.
>> If there is such a thing please tell me where to buy it.
>>
>> Robert
Michael Paauwe
mpaauwe@xxxxxxxxxx
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