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The funds move the market and the commercials hedge the market. The
big money is made by the funds and they trade the Big Board. The
mini has too many artificial spikes from overnight trading or small
lot traders getting overdone in a situation. Basically the Big Board
is a more technically sound chart. This is always the case.
KS.
--- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
<andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> KS, one more: Why not chart the minis? Why trade by the Big
Contracts
> and enter in the mini contracts?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
> <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> > I think the dow mini is $5 a point and and the full dow future
> > contract is 10$ a point. That is what i go on. 1% of of my
initial
> > margin of $2500 is $25 dollars which is 5 points. This is of
course
> > when I do random entry technique. Other wise from my experience
if
> > the dow moves more than 50 points against me I usually get out.
That
> > is just my experience but it could be different for others.
> > KS.
> >
> > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > I trade daily, intraday, or position depending on how the
charts
> > > > look. The reason I say "no sleep" is that I don't put stops
in
> > > > because all electronic orders can be viewed by other traders
> > because
> > > > the real time quotes puts them up for everybody to see. This
> > means
> > > > that stops will get picked off. You will experience this for
> > > > yourself, when it goes down to hit your stop and then
proceeds
> > to go
> > > > back up again. Since it is electronic it means
instantaneous
> > fills
> > > > or close to it. When the price hits my loss target I put
the
> > order
> > > > in at the market, This is the stop process the Turtles made
> > famous
> > > > and is probably the only thing that is useful from what they
> > > > originally did.
> > >
> > > KS, doesn't hiding your stops only matter if you are trading
very
> > > large positions? Also if you are using wider stops in the case
of
> > > position trading (say 2 ATRs) then is getting your stops
picked off
> > > still a problem, given the wider stops?
> > >
> > > >Of course I'm referring to electronic markets of dow
> > > > mini and others. I do not trade the pit contracts unless I'm
> > > > position trading even then I prefer the electronic. The
> > leverage or
> > > > granularity you talk about is only relevant if you talk
about
> > risk.
> > > > The higher the point value the greater the risk to reward
ratio.
> > If
> > > > you are beginning i would recommend the dow mini contract.
$5
> > > > dollars a point and $2500.00 a contract. Volatility meters
and
> > price
> > > > range can help with money management portion of the trading.
The
> > Dow
> > > > market are the easiest to trade because they trade in a
range
> > bound
> > > > pattern. Take a look at a historical chart of the dow
futures
> > > > contract. Do not chart the mini. Trade by the Big Contracts
and
> > > > enter in the mini contracts.
> > >
> > > This is a big disconnect for me. Why trade by the Big
Contracts and
> > > enter in the mini contracts? Why not chart the minis?
> > >
> > > > (example of my last trade would be: I shorted the mini sep
dow
> > at
> > > > 10700 with a target stop loss of 50 points or $250.00 and it
> > went to
> > > > 10734 and collapsed to 10580 which then I exited at the
market
> > > > because it hit trend line support. I checked the stop orders
> > place
> > > > at the time the market went to 10734 and the last stop order
was
> > at
> > > > that price 10734, then the market collapsed. So the
reasoning is
> > > > that if I could see it the big leverage players will move
the
> > market
> > > > to pick off the buy stop and let the market go down to its
> > proper
> > > > trend.
> > >
> > > I see your point. Again, if 10734 was for a small number of
> > contracts,
> > > the big players may not have walked the index up there to take
out
> > a
> > > few contracts... but who knows. Your example uses a 50 point
stop.
> > 1
> > > ATR is around 95 points, so if this was a position trade,
isn't the
> > > stop a bit tight?
> > >
> > > >My stop method is from years of experience in this market
> > > > and requires the ability to immediately exit a trade when
the
> > target
> > > > stop loss is hit. It does not matter if it goes back down.
You
> > get
> > > > out. Any change in this money management technique will
cause
> > losses.
> > >
> > > Yes, I understand, discipline.
> > >
> > > > One quick note : I tested with real money with a coin flip.
I
> > > > entered long if it is heads and short if it is tails. I put
the
> > stop
> > > > loss at 1% or $25.00 or 5 ticks.
> > >
> > > I don't follow. 5 ticks is 0.05% of the Dow (5/10000). How do
you
> > get 1%?
> > >
> > > > With this money management
> > > > technique I was profitable. Basically random entry into the
> > market
> > > > with a proper money management system made it profitable.
> > Trading
> > > > is 90% money management 10% technical. I use to think it was
the
> > > > other way around but it took awhile to figure this out.
> > >
> > > I completely agree. THanks so much for your comments, KS.
> > >
> > > > KS.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> > > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > KS,
> > > > >
> > > > > If you don't mind a few questions:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) Do you daytrade ES and YM or trade multi-day?
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Do you see any benefit from the added granularity of YM
> > over ES
> > > > > (i.e. YM tick is $1, ES tick is $0.25, but YM is 10x ES
which
> > means
> > > > > ES=$0.25 and YM=$0.10 in apples-to-apples). Does YM's finer
> > > > > granularity allow your stops to be shaken out less?
> > > > >
> > > > > 3) Leveraging cuts both ways, but e-mini traders only
speak of
> > it's
> > > > > goodness (as you are confirming). Why is that? Have you
never
> > been
> > > > > hurt by the high leverage?
> > > > >
> > > > > 4) "Sleep is not an option because of night trading". I'm
> > assuming
> > > > > vigilant stop placement for ES/YM end-of-day traders
allows
> > for
> > > > sleep?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you for your help, KS.
> > > > > Andy.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
> > > > > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > I can't speak for anybody else but I have been trading
the
> > Dow
> > > > > > Futures and Dow Mini and S&P mini since it began. Once
you
> > trade
> > > > > > them you will never go back to stocks. It is because of
the
> > > > > > leveraging. All the indexes move in direct relation to
the
> > > > Stock
> > > > > > Market indexes so any long term direction must be done
with
> > the
> > > > Big
> > > > > > Board not the mini's. Be warned the Night Trading moves
the
> > > > market
> > > > > > tremendously sometimes and sometimes sleep is not an
option.
> > > > > > Otherwise if your technical analysis is at a high level
you
> > will
> > > > > > like it. August issue of Futures magazine I think has a
good
> > > > article
> > > > > > on options.
> > > > > > KS.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> > > > > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > > Vladimir,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In your experience, how would you compare trading the
> > index
> > > > versus
> > > > > > > trading the futures? For example, trading ES vs. SPX,
or
> > NQ vs.
> > > > > > > QQQQ,... I know the leverage is very different, but
> > besides
> > > > that
> > > > > > how
> > > > > > > has your experience been?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have heard that once a trader moves from
stocks/indexes
> > to
> > > > > > futures,
> > > > > > > they never return to stocks...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v"
<entinv@xxxx>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > From my experience future always track the index.
For
> > > > example
> > > > > > > either you
> > > > > > > > trade QQQQ or NQ
> > > > > > > > the only real difference is the leverage.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Comparing futures to equities if you mean individual
> > stocks,
> > > > the
> > > > > > future
> > > > > > > > never goes bankrupt therefore it's
> > > > > > > > safer to buy. Futures, both commodities and indexes
> > appear
> > > > to
> > > > > > > better comply
> > > > > > > > with the technical analysis
> > > > > > > > studies in comparison with individual stocks. Many
> > > > individual
> > > > > > > stocks are
> > > > > > > > not liquid enough to trade and
> > > > > > > > those most liquid would track corresponding
> > industry/group
> > > > > > indexes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Never heard about Track N TRade before. Looks
> > interesting
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
> > > > metastkuser
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 11:56 PM
> > > > > > > > To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using
Metastock to
> > > > trade
> > > > > > FUTURES?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Vladimir,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "It doesn't provide continuous contracts, but for
ES
> > and
> > > > YM
> > > > > > you can
> > > > > > > > use SPY/SPX and DIA/DJI if you need longer term
> > picture."
> > > > > > > > -- yes, it occured to me that I can use SPX
instead
> > of
> > > > ES,
> > > > > > and DIA
> > > > > > > > instead of YM. But, does the future always track
the
> > > > index?
> > > > > > Wouldn't
> > > > > > > > the future move much faster than the index if the
> > index
> > > > made a
> > > > > > sudden
> > > > > > > > large move?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How do you like trading futures compared to
equities?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > By the way, have you heard of Track N Trade for
> > > > backtesting
> > > > > > futures?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v"
> > <entinv@xxxx>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > For EOD futures I'm using HSQuote from
> > > > > > > > >
> > http://www.downloadjunction.com/product/software/4358/
> > > > > > > > > It doesn't provide continuous contracts, but for
ES
> > and
> > > > YM
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > can use
> > > > > > > > > SPY/SPX and DIA/DJI if you
> > > > > > > > > need longer term picture.
> > > > > > > > > Intraday I'm using MetaServer RT for
> > Interactivebrokers.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don't trade options on futures.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > Vladimir
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf
Of
> > > > > > metastkuser
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:18 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using
> > Metastock to
> > > > > > trade
> > > > > > > FUTURES?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Vladimir,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you don't mind answering a couple of
questions:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1) I'm only interested in S&P 500 e-mini (ES)
and
> > mini-
> > > > Dow
> > > > > > > (YM). I use
> > > > > > > > > Reuters for stock/indices end-of-day data. I
don't
> > > > want to
> > > > > > pay
> > > > > > > for the
> > > > > > > > > omplete futures eod package. Do you know where
I
> > can
> > > > get
> > > > > > eod
> > > > > > > data for
> > > > > > > > > just ES and YM?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2) Options on futures. I currently trade
options
> > credit
> > > > > > > spreads on SPX
> > > > > > > > > and would like to try credit spreads on ES and
YM.
> > Do
> > > > you
> > > > > > trade
> > > > > > > > > options on futures? Can Metastock support this?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v"
> > > > <entinv@xxxx>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Yes, I do.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Vladimir
> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf
> > Of
> > > > > > metastkuser
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 5:53 PM
> > > > > > > > > > To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using
> > Metastock to
> > > > > > trade
> > > > > > > FUTURES?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Anyone using MS to trade futures?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Business finance course
> > Business
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