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"The mini has too many artificial spikes from overnight trading or
small lot traders getting overdone in a situation."
-- I guess the spikes would be a major problem if a person traded
multi-day positions and had active stop losses... which is what I was
planning to do!
--- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
<formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> The funds move the market and the commercials hedge the market. The
> big money is made by the funds and they trade the Big Board. The
> mini has too many artificial spikes from overnight trading or small
> lot traders getting overdone in a situation. Basically the Big Board
> is a more technically sound chart. This is always the case.
> KS.
>
>
> --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > KS, one more: Why not chart the minis? Why trade by the Big
> Contracts
> > and enter in the mini contracts?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
> > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> > > I think the dow mini is $5 a point and and the full dow future
> > > contract is 10$ a point. That is what i go on. 1% of of my
> initial
> > > margin of $2500 is $25 dollars which is 5 points. This is of
> course
> > > when I do random entry technique. Other wise from my experience
> if
> > > the dow moves more than 50 points against me I usually get out.
> That
> > > is just my experience but it could be different for others.
> > > KS.
> > >
> > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > I trade daily, intraday, or position depending on how the
> charts
> > > > > look. The reason I say "no sleep" is that I don't put stops
> in
> > > > > because all electronic orders can be viewed by other traders
> > > because
> > > > > the real time quotes puts them up for everybody to see. This
> > > means
> > > > > that stops will get picked off. You will experience this for
> > > > > yourself, when it goes down to hit your stop and then
> proceeds
> > > to go
> > > > > back up again. Since it is electronic it means
> instantaneous
> > > fills
> > > > > or close to it. When the price hits my loss target I put
> the
> > > order
> > > > > in at the market, This is the stop process the Turtles made
> > > famous
> > > > > and is probably the only thing that is useful from what they
> > > > > originally did.
> > > >
> > > > KS, doesn't hiding your stops only matter if you are trading
> very
> > > > large positions? Also if you are using wider stops in the case
> of
> > > > position trading (say 2 ATRs) then is getting your stops
> picked off
> > > > still a problem, given the wider stops?
> > > >
> > > > >Of course I'm referring to electronic markets of dow
> > > > > mini and others. I do not trade the pit contracts unless I'm
> > > > > position trading even then I prefer the electronic. The
> > > leverage or
> > > > > granularity you talk about is only relevant if you talk
> about
> > > risk.
> > > > > The higher the point value the greater the risk to reward
> ratio.
> > > If
> > > > > you are beginning i would recommend the dow mini contract.
> $5
> > > > > dollars a point and $2500.00 a contract. Volatility meters
> and
> > > price
> > > > > range can help with money management portion of the trading.
> The
> > > Dow
> > > > > market are the easiest to trade because they trade in a
> range
> > > bound
> > > > > pattern. Take a look at a historical chart of the dow
> futures
> > > > > contract. Do not chart the mini. Trade by the Big Contracts
> and
> > > > > enter in the mini contracts.
> > > >
> > > > This is a big disconnect for me. Why trade by the Big
> Contracts and
> > > > enter in the mini contracts? Why not chart the minis?
> > > >
> > > > > (example of my last trade would be: I shorted the mini sep
> dow
> > > at
> > > > > 10700 with a target stop loss of 50 points or $250.00 and it
> > > went to
> > > > > 10734 and collapsed to 10580 which then I exited at the
> market
> > > > > because it hit trend line support. I checked the stop orders
> > > place
> > > > > at the time the market went to 10734 and the last stop order
> was
> > > at
> > > > > that price 10734, then the market collapsed. So the
> reasoning is
> > > > > that if I could see it the big leverage players will move
> the
> > > market
> > > > > to pick off the buy stop and let the market go down to its
> > > proper
> > > > > trend.
> > > >
> > > > I see your point. Again, if 10734 was for a small number of
> > > contracts,
> > > > the big players may not have walked the index up there to take
> out
> > > a
> > > > few contracts... but who knows. Your example uses a 50 point
> stop.
> > > 1
> > > > ATR is around 95 points, so if this was a position trade,
> isn't the
> > > > stop a bit tight?
> > > >
> > > > >My stop method is from years of experience in this market
> > > > > and requires the ability to immediately exit a trade when
> the
> > > target
> > > > > stop loss is hit. It does not matter if it goes back down.
> You
> > > get
> > > > > out. Any change in this money management technique will
> cause
> > > losses.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I understand, discipline.
> > > >
> > > > > One quick note : I tested with real money with a coin flip.
> I
> > > > > entered long if it is heads and short if it is tails. I put
> the
> > > stop
> > > > > loss at 1% or $25.00 or 5 ticks.
> > > >
> > > > I don't follow. 5 ticks is 0.05% of the Dow (5/10000). How do
> you
> > > get 1%?
> > > >
> > > > > With this money management
> > > > > technique I was profitable. Basically random entry into the
> > > market
> > > > > with a proper money management system made it profitable.
> > > Trading
> > > > > is 90% money management 10% technical. I use to think it was
> the
> > > > > other way around but it took awhile to figure this out.
> > > >
> > > > I completely agree. THanks so much for your comments, KS.
> > > >
> > > > > KS.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> > > > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > KS,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you don't mind a few questions:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) Do you daytrade ES and YM or trade multi-day?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) Do you see any benefit from the added granularity of YM
> > > over ES
> > > > > > (i.e. YM tick is $1, ES tick is $0.25, but YM is 10x ES
> which
> > > means
> > > > > > ES=$0.25 and YM=$0.10 in apples-to-apples). Does YM's finer
> > > > > > granularity allow your stops to be shaken out less?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3) Leveraging cuts both ways, but e-mini traders only
> speak of
> > > it's
> > > > > > goodness (as you are confirming). Why is that? Have you
> never
> > > been
> > > > > > hurt by the high leverage?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 4) "Sleep is not an option because of night trading". I'm
> > > assuming
> > > > > > vigilant stop placement for ES/YM end-of-day traders
> allows
> > > for
> > > > > sleep?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for your help, KS.
> > > > > > Andy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
> > > > > > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > > I can't speak for anybody else but I have been trading
> the
> > > Dow
> > > > > > > Futures and Dow Mini and S&P mini since it began. Once
> you
> > > trade
> > > > > > > them you will never go back to stocks. It is because of
> the
> > > > > > > leveraging. All the indexes move in direct relation to
> the
> > > > > Stock
> > > > > > > Market indexes so any long term direction must be done
> with
> > > the
> > > > > Big
> > > > > > > Board not the mini's. Be warned the Night Trading moves
> the
> > > > > market
> > > > > > > tremendously sometimes and sometimes sleep is not an
> option.
> > > > > > > Otherwise if your technical analysis is at a high level
> you
> > > will
> > > > > > > like it. August issue of Futures magazine I think has a
> good
> > > > > article
> > > > > > > on options.
> > > > > > > KS.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> > > > > > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Vladimir,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In your experience, how would you compare trading the
> > > index
> > > > > versus
> > > > > > > > trading the futures? For example, trading ES vs. SPX,
> or
> > > NQ vs.
> > > > > > > > QQQQ,... I know the leverage is very different, but
> > > besides
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > has your experience been?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have heard that once a trader moves from
> stocks/indexes
> > > to
> > > > > > > futures,
> > > > > > > > they never return to stocks...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v"
> <entinv@xxxx>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > From my experience future always track the index.
> For
> > > > > example
> > > > > > > > either you
> > > > > > > > > trade QQQQ or NQ
> > > > > > > > > the only real difference is the leverage.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Comparing futures to equities if you mean individual
> > > stocks,
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > future
> > > > > > > > > never goes bankrupt therefore it's
> > > > > > > > > safer to buy. Futures, both commodities and indexes
> > > appear
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > better comply
> > > > > > > > > with the technical analysis
> > > > > > > > > studies in comparison with individual stocks. Many
> > > > > individual
> > > > > > > > stocks are
> > > > > > > > > not liquid enough to trade and
> > > > > > > > > those most liquid would track corresponding
> > > industry/group
> > > > > > > indexes.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Never heard about Track N TRade before. Looks
> > > interesting
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
> > > > > metastkuser
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 11:56 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using
> Metastock to
> > > > > trade
> > > > > > > FUTURES?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Vladimir,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "It doesn't provide continuous contracts, but for
> ES
> > > and
> > > > > YM
> > > > > > > you can
> > > > > > > > > use SPY/SPX and DIA/DJI if you need longer term
> > > picture."
> > > > > > > > > -- yes, it occured to me that I can use SPX
> instead
> > > of
> > > > > ES,
> > > > > > > and DIA
> > > > > > > > > instead of YM. But, does the future always track
> the
> > > > > index?
> > > > > > > Wouldn't
> > > > > > > > > the future move much faster than the index if the
> > > index
> > > > > made a
> > > > > > > sudden
> > > > > > > > > large move?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > How do you like trading futures compared to
> equities?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > By the way, have you heard of Track N Trade for
> > > > > backtesting
> > > > > > > futures?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v"
> > > <entinv@xxxx>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > For EOD futures I'm using HSQuote from
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > http://www.downloadjunction.com/product/software/4358/
> > > > > > > > > > It doesn't provide continuous contracts, but for
> ES
> > > and
> > > > > YM
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > can use
> > > > > > > > > > SPY/SPX and DIA/DJI if you
> > > > > > > > > > need longer term picture.
> > > > > > > > > > Intraday I'm using MetaServer RT for
> > > Interactivebrokers.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I don't trade options on futures.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > Vladimir
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf
> Of
> > > > > > > metastkuser
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:18 PM
> > > > > > > > > > To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using
> > > Metastock to
> > > > > > > trade
> > > > > > > > FUTURES?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Vladimir,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If you don't mind answering a couple of
> questions:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1) I'm only interested in S&P 500 e-mini (ES)
> and
> > > mini-
> > > > > Dow
> > > > > > > > (YM). I use
> > > > > > > > > > Reuters for stock/indices end-of-day data. I
> don't
> > > > > want to
> > > > > > > pay
> > > > > > > > for the
> > > > > > > > > > omplete futures eod package. Do you know where
> I
> > > can
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > eod
> > > > > > > > data for
> > > > > > > > > > just ES and YM?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2) Options on futures. I currently trade
> options
> > > credit
> > > > > > > > spreads on SPX
> > > > > > > > > > and would like to try credit spreads on ES and
> YM.
> > > Do
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > trade
> > > > > > > > > > options on futures? Can Metastock support this?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v"
> > > > > <entinv@xxxx>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I do.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Vladimir
> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
> Behalf
> > > Of
> > > > > > > metastkuser
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 5:53 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using
> > > Metastock to
> > > > > > > trade
> > > > > > > > FUTURES?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using MS to trade futures?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Business finance course
> > > Business
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > business
> > > > > > > > > finance
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> Business
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