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One more thing. I trade between 1-100 contracts sizes of the dow
mini's. The maximum position one could hold on the minis before
having to declare is 2500 contracts or it could be doubled to 5000
contracts I haven't checked recently. So it is pretty broad. I still
use the same money management plan.
KS.
example: with 1 lot I test the trend and will handle a $250.00 loss.
With a major trend I will enter 100 lot and will suffer a $25,000.00
draw down with a profit to reward ratio of 3:1. I will never enter a
large position trade without a 3:1 risk to reward ratio. Basically
if i risk $25,000.00 I must return $75,000.00 in profit. Keep in
mind major trend trades happen a several times a year.
KS.
--- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
<formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> The funds move the market and the commercials hedge the market.
The
> big money is made by the funds and they trade the Big Board. The
> mini has too many artificial spikes from overnight trading or
small
> lot traders getting overdone in a situation. Basically the Big
Board
> is a more technically sound chart. This is always the case.
> KS.
>
>
> --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > KS, one more: Why not chart the minis? Why trade by the Big
> Contracts
> > and enter in the mini contracts?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
> > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> > > I think the dow mini is $5 a point and and the full dow future
> > > contract is 10$ a point. That is what i go on. 1% of of my
> initial
> > > margin of $2500 is $25 dollars which is 5 points. This is of
> course
> > > when I do random entry technique. Other wise from my
experience
> if
> > > the dow moves more than 50 points against me I usually get
out.
> That
> > > is just my experience but it could be different for others.
> > > KS.
> > >
> > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > I trade daily, intraday, or position depending on how the
> charts
> > > > > look. The reason I say "no sleep" is that I don't put
stops
> in
> > > > > because all electronic orders can be viewed by other
traders
> > > because
> > > > > the real time quotes puts them up for everybody to see.
This
> > > means
> > > > > that stops will get picked off. You will experience this
for
> > > > > yourself, when it goes down to hit your stop and then
> proceeds
> > > to go
> > > > > back up again. Since it is electronic it means
> instantaneous
> > > fills
> > > > > or close to it. When the price hits my loss target I put
> the
> > > order
> > > > > in at the market, This is the stop process the Turtles
made
> > > famous
> > > > > and is probably the only thing that is useful from what
they
> > > > > originally did.
> > > >
> > > > KS, doesn't hiding your stops only matter if you are trading
> very
> > > > large positions? Also if you are using wider stops in the
case
> of
> > > > position trading (say 2 ATRs) then is getting your stops
> picked off
> > > > still a problem, given the wider stops?
> > > >
> > > > >Of course I'm referring to electronic markets of dow
> > > > > mini and others. I do not trade the pit contracts unless
I'm
> > > > > position trading even then I prefer the electronic. The
> > > leverage or
> > > > > granularity you talk about is only relevant if you talk
> about
> > > risk.
> > > > > The higher the point value the greater the risk to reward
> ratio.
> > > If
> > > > > you are beginning i would recommend the dow mini contract.
> $5
> > > > > dollars a point and $2500.00 a contract. Volatility meters
> and
> > > price
> > > > > range can help with money management portion of the
trading.
> The
> > > Dow
> > > > > market are the easiest to trade because they trade in a
> range
> > > bound
> > > > > pattern. Take a look at a historical chart of the dow
> futures
> > > > > contract. Do not chart the mini. Trade by the Big
Contracts
> and
> > > > > enter in the mini contracts.
> > > >
> > > > This is a big disconnect for me. Why trade by the Big
> Contracts and
> > > > enter in the mini contracts? Why not chart the minis?
> > > >
> > > > > (example of my last trade would be: I shorted the mini sep
> dow
> > > at
> > > > > 10700 with a target stop loss of 50 points or $250.00 and
it
> > > went to
> > > > > 10734 and collapsed to 10580 which then I exited at the
> market
> > > > > because it hit trend line support. I checked the stop
orders
> > > place
> > > > > at the time the market went to 10734 and the last stop
order
> was
> > > at
> > > > > that price 10734, then the market collapsed. So the
> reasoning is
> > > > > that if I could see it the big leverage players will move
> the
> > > market
> > > > > to pick off the buy stop and let the market go down to its
> > > proper
> > > > > trend.
> > > >
> > > > I see your point. Again, if 10734 was for a small number of
> > > contracts,
> > > > the big players may not have walked the index up there to
take
> out
> > > a
> > > > few contracts... but who knows. Your example uses a 50 point
> stop.
> > > 1
> > > > ATR is around 95 points, so if this was a position trade,
> isn't the
> > > > stop a bit tight?
> > > >
> > > > >My stop method is from years of experience in this market
> > > > > and requires the ability to immediately exit a trade when
> the
> > > target
> > > > > stop loss is hit. It does not matter if it goes back down.
> You
> > > get
> > > > > out. Any change in this money management technique will
> cause
> > > losses.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I understand, discipline.
> > > >
> > > > > One quick note : I tested with real money with a coin
flip.
> I
> > > > > entered long if it is heads and short if it is tails. I
put
> the
> > > stop
> > > > > loss at 1% or $25.00 or 5 ticks.
> > > >
> > > > I don't follow. 5 ticks is 0.05% of the Dow (5/10000). How
do
> you
> > > get 1%?
> > > >
> > > > > With this money management
> > > > > technique I was profitable. Basically random entry into
the
> > > market
> > > > > with a proper money management system made it profitable.
> > > Trading
> > > > > is 90% money management 10% technical. I use to think it
was
> the
> > > > > other way around but it took awhile to figure this out.
> > > >
> > > > I completely agree. THanks so much for your comments, KS.
> > > >
> > > > > KS.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> > > > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > KS,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you don't mind a few questions:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) Do you daytrade ES and YM or trade multi-day?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) Do you see any benefit from the added granularity of
YM
> > > over ES
> > > > > > (i.e. YM tick is $1, ES tick is $0.25, but YM is 10x ES
> which
> > > means
> > > > > > ES=$0.25 and YM=$0.10 in apples-to-apples). Does YM's
finer
> > > > > > granularity allow your stops to be shaken out less?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3) Leveraging cuts both ways, but e-mini traders only
> speak of
> > > it's
> > > > > > goodness (as you are confirming). Why is that? Have you
> never
> > > been
> > > > > > hurt by the high leverage?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 4) "Sleep is not an option because of night trading".
I'm
> > > assuming
> > > > > > vigilant stop placement for ES/YM end-of-day traders
> allows
> > > for
> > > > > sleep?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for your help, KS.
> > > > > > Andy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
> > > > > > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > > I can't speak for anybody else but I have been trading
> the
> > > Dow
> > > > > > > Futures and Dow Mini and S&P mini since it began. Once
> you
> > > trade
> > > > > > > them you will never go back to stocks. It is because
of
> the
> > > > > > > leveraging. All the indexes move in direct relation
to
> the
> > > > > Stock
> > > > > > > Market indexes so any long term direction must be done
> with
> > > the
> > > > > Big
> > > > > > > Board not the mini's. Be warned the Night Trading
moves
> the
> > > > > market
> > > > > > > tremendously sometimes and sometimes sleep is not an
> option.
> > > > > > > Otherwise if your technical analysis is at a high
level
> you
> > > will
> > > > > > > like it. August issue of Futures magazine I think has
a
> good
> > > > > article
> > > > > > > on options.
> > > > > > > KS.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> > > > > > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Vladimir,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you for taking the time to answer my
questions.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In your experience, how would you compare trading
the
> > > index
> > > > > versus
> > > > > > > > trading the futures? For example, trading ES vs.
SPX,
> or
> > > NQ vs.
> > > > > > > > QQQQ,... I know the leverage is very different, but
> > > besides
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > has your experience been?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have heard that once a trader moves from
> stocks/indexes
> > > to
> > > > > > > futures,
> > > > > > > > they never return to stocks...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v"
> <entinv@xxxx>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > From my experience future always track the index.
> For
> > > > > example
> > > > > > > > either you
> > > > > > > > > trade QQQQ or NQ
> > > > > > > > > the only real difference is the leverage.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Comparing futures to equities if you mean
individual
> > > stocks,
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > future
> > > > > > > > > never goes bankrupt therefore it's
> > > > > > > > > safer to buy. Futures, both commodities and
indexes
> > > appear
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > better comply
> > > > > > > > > with the technical analysis
> > > > > > > > > studies in comparison with individual stocks.
Many
> > > > > individual
> > > > > > > > stocks are
> > > > > > > > > not liquid enough to trade and
> > > > > > > > > those most liquid would track corresponding
> > > industry/group
> > > > > > > indexes.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Never heard about Track N TRade before. Looks
> > > interesting
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf
Of
> > > > > metastkuser
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 11:56 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using
> Metastock to
> > > > > trade
> > > > > > > FUTURES?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Vladimir,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "It doesn't provide continuous contracts, but
for
> ES
> > > and
> > > > > YM
> > > > > > > you can
> > > > > > > > > use SPY/SPX and DIA/DJI if you need longer term
> > > picture."
> > > > > > > > > -- yes, it occured to me that I can use SPX
> instead
> > > of
> > > > > ES,
> > > > > > > and DIA
> > > > > > > > > instead of YM. But, does the future always track
> the
> > > > > index?
> > > > > > > Wouldn't
> > > > > > > > > the future move much faster than the index if
the
> > > index
> > > > > made a
> > > > > > > sudden
> > > > > > > > > large move?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > How do you like trading futures compared to
> equities?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > By the way, have you heard of Track N Trade for
> > > > > backtesting
> > > > > > > futures?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v"
> > > <entinv@xxxx>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > For EOD futures I'm using HSQuote from
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > http://www.downloadjunction.com/product/software/4358/
> > > > > > > > > > It doesn't provide continuous contracts, but
for
> ES
> > > and
> > > > > YM
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > can use
> > > > > > > > > > SPY/SPX and DIA/DJI if you
> > > > > > > > > > need longer term picture.
> > > > > > > > > > Intraday I'm using MetaServer RT for
> > > Interactivebrokers.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I don't trade options on futures.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > Vladimir
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf
> Of
> > > > > > > metastkuser
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:18 PM
> > > > > > > > > > To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using
> > > Metastock to
> > > > > > > trade
> > > > > > > > FUTURES?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Vladimir,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If you don't mind answering a couple of
> questions:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1) I'm only interested in S&P 500 e-mini
(ES)
> and
> > > mini-
> > > > > Dow
> > > > > > > > (YM). I use
> > > > > > > > > > Reuters for stock/indices end-of-day data. I
> don't
> > > > > want to
> > > > > > > pay
> > > > > > > > for the
> > > > > > > > > > omplete futures eod package. Do you know
where
> I
> > > can
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > eod
> > > > > > > > data for
> > > > > > > > > > just ES and YM?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2) Options on futures. I currently trade
> options
> > > credit
> > > > > > > > spreads on SPX
> > > > > > > > > > and would like to try credit spreads on ES
and
> YM.
> > > Do
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > trade
> > > > > > > > > > options on futures? Can Metastock support
this?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v"
> > > > > <entinv@xxxx>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I do.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Vladimir
> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
> Behalf
> > > Of
> > > > > > > metastkuser
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 5:53 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using
> > > Metastock to
> > > > > > > trade
> > > > > > > > FUTURES?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using MS to trade futures?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Business finance course
> > > Business
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > business
> > > > > > > > > finance
> > > > > > > > > > > Small business finance
> > > > > > > > > > > Business finance consultant
> Business
> > > > > finance
> > > > > > > magazine
> > > > > > > > > Business
> > > > > > > > > > > finance schools
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
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