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Andy,
Reuters is a completely different thing. They have a huge amount of
data to deal with daily. They have to clean the data, etc every day.
It takes a lot of hardware, software and people to do that. There are
sources of "free" data on the internet.
Equis has a lease for those who don't have enough cash to buy, or who
want to try the product for a month or two before buying. Almost all
of the long term users convert to owning.
I'm very familiar with software leasing. I didn't like it when I was
managing companies, and I don't like it now.
If Brad can get his pricing model to work, fine. If it works, it won't
be because I'm sending him any money.
I assume you're going to sign up! Since you like the Reuters IV you
might as well get one for each arm.
--- In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
<andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> Andrew, Super,... Just about every software suppier in the engineering
> space has migrated to the lease model (or time-based model, as they
> like to call it). Wall street loves deterministic annuity revenue
models.
>
> Even ole Equis has a lease model for Metastock.
>
> I contend that your beef is more to do with the fact that a small
> outfit is trying to exert pricing power over you, and less to do with
> the actual dollars.
>
> What about Reuters' IV in my arm, month-in, month out? What can I do
> about it? How is that different?
>
>
> --- In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Andrew Tomlinson"
> <andrew_tomlinson@xxxx> wrote:
> >
> > So let's assume that these are well coded indicators. I like them so
> much
> > that I start to use them . Maybe I build them into a system I want
> to use.
> > Then what - I'm locked in to paying these guys a large some of money
> every
> > year for ever? Or someone wants to use them as a small part of a
> system they
> > want to sell someone else - are they going to have to pay royalties?
> >
> > These aren't systems, they're indicators. They are building bricks
> that, if
> > they're useful, you may use as part of something larger. What would
> it be
> > like is Wilder or Appel or Bollinger or Lane (or their estates)
> decided that
> > they wanted to patent their indicators so you would have to pay a
> licensing
> > fee for as long as you used them?
> >
> > Look, I can only speak for myself. I was excited when I saw the
post. It
> > looked like a really useful contribution. But I was staggered when I
> saw the
> > pricing scheme. To my mind it looks like a bad precedent for Metastock
> > coders and a bad precedent for Technical Analysis. But I'm curious
now -
> > what does everyone else think? Is this a good way to go? Should we pay
> > on-going licensing fees for every piece of code that people
> contribute to
> > this site?
> >
> > Yes, people deserve to get paid for good code. But this pricing
> model sure
> > doesn't work for me.
> >
> > What do you all think?
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On Behalf Of Kevin
> > Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 3:19 AM
> > To: Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [Metastockusers] Re: New Adaptive Tools for Metastock
> >
> >
> > Hello Andrew,
> >
> > I think that you are being a little harsh here. This guy is simply
> letting
> > people know that he has a Metastock product for sale on the Metastock
> > forum. It's been done before and, as far as I'm concerned, is
perfectly
> > legitimate. After all, nobody has to buy the product or even look at
> his
> > site. He made it perfectly clear in his original post that his is a
> > commercial offering.
> >
> > Your argument could be extended to the people at Equis. They have
> sold most
> > of us the Metastock package for........money!! Shock! Horror! Have
they
> > taken us for fools too?
> >
> > If somebody wants to set up shop as a dentist, does he/she expect to
> pick
> > up a chair on the cheap, get given a box of drills for free and crib
> a few
> > tips about teeth from an internet forum? In any profession, the
> tools and
> > expertise have to be bought and, usually, paid for. Experience comes
> over
> > time, but that's a different story. Why should the business of
> trading be
> > any different?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kevin
> >
> > At 09:00 30/06/2005 +0300, you wrote:
> > >
> > >My dear friend,
> > >
> > >nobody here wants to disprove your work and efforts of making
valuable
> > >market tools.The only point I want to stress out,as I've done in the
> > >past is that no indicator,no technical study and no pattern will
make
> > >you a good trader....
> > >
> > >Good traders trade the markets and make money.All the others are
> > >selling books,services,indicators,seminars,etc....And they will
always
> > >find some fools to buy these "products" and earn their living from
> > >them....period!
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "bradulrich33" <bradulrich@xxxx>
> > >To: <Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 8:15 AM
> > >Subject: [Metastockusers] Re: New Adaptive Tools for Metastock
> > >
> > >
> > > > --- In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Andrew Tomlinson"
> > > > <andrew_tomlinson@xxxx> wrote:
> > > >> Not quite a bargain at $600 per annum!!!
> > > >>
> > > >> Makes it clear what good value Roy and Jose's work is.
> > > >>
> > > >> Do Metastock users have a reputation for being rich and dumb,
that
> > > > someone
> > > >> tries something like this?
> > > >>
> > > >> Andrew
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And how is something Expensive automatically Worthless? If our
> > > > product was cheap or free, would it be totally awesome???
> > > >
> > > > Did you bother to research our products at all, do you have
> anything
> > > > intelligent to say about them beyond the obvious? It is easy
to cut
> > > > and paste the prices, see:
> > > >
> > > > A full list of our prices can be found here:
> > > > www.thedml.com/pages/order
> > > >
> > > > You seem to have formed a staunch opinion quite quickly, and
yet in
> > > > so, so, little time. It it seems as though you were discouraging
> > > > people from looking at the site and gathering their own
> information.
> > > > How else do we learn? It is you who is trying to pull the sheet
> > > > over their eyes, not me. I want them all to see. Form their own
> > > > opinion.
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Secondly, I think you mispoke: "trying something like this"
doesn't
> > > > require being rich or dumb. "Trying" the trial for two months is
> > > > free; doesn't cost a thing. And you don't have to be dumb,
> although
> > > > you can be...we don't discriminate :)
> > > >
> > > > With the trial, you are locked into absolutely nothing, you
receive
> > > > nothing that you didn't ask for, and it can fully uninstalled, no
> > > > problems...right back to where you started. I have recently
> updated
> > > > the trial download page to mention these important things...I
> > > > realize many people trick you into things with trials...
> > > >
> > > > As for Roy and Jose, they ARE worth their weight in gold, and I
> > > > respect what they do. I can only hope the my company and its
users
> > > > can have people as dedicated to education and service as those
two.
> > > > If fact, it is our primary policy to offer and encourage
education
> > > > to (and between) our users. I really like these guys, I do. So
> > > > much, In fact, that I am modelling our company after each of
> theirs:
> > > > I am offering quality products for sale, but I am counting on my
> > > > support and services to earn a reputation.
> > > >
> > > > And I assure you, if Roy and Jose could do what our products do:
> > > >
> > > > 1.) They would have already done it
> > > > 2.) I would not have spent years developing them, and
> > > > 3.) I would not be selling them, they would be.
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Ah, yes, and then there is the price::
> > > >
> > > > Professional tools are offered at premium prices. This is
obvious
> > > > in many areas of trading software/services.
> > > >
> > > > For example, you can download data for free, or you can get
premium
> > > > data for TWICE of what our indicators cost per month. Just for
> > > > DATA.
> > > >
> > > > As for the benefits:
> > > >
> > > > You have to understand what it is our products do that you
> cannot do
> > > > already in Metastock. With ASI, (the adaptive indicators), this
> > > > point is somewhat subtle, and not everyone gets it. If you have
> been
> > > > working inside the confined space that is the Metastock language,
> > > > then you may not realize that there is another world of more
> > > > powerful indicators out there waiting to be built. We
ourselves at
> > > > the DML do not even see the entire realm of possibilities. The
> > > > indicators are not just end indicators, they are TOOLS that
EXTEND
> > > > THE METASTOCK FORMULA LANGUAGE.
> > > >
> > > > As with any new tools, it will take time, and a growing user
base,
> > > > to really find out what they are capable of. Some advanced users
> > > > know this already, and have been waiting years for a product that
> > > > does what ours does. They are very excited, and can't believe
> > > > someone has finally done it. This is our main target audience.
> > > >
> > > > As for Ehlers' work, it speaks for itself. I can tell you as a
> > > > mathematician and an engineer that the math makes sense and is
> > > > theoretically sound. What makes so many people not use his
> stuff is
> > > > the fact that it is hard to implement. They say it is hard to
> > > > understand, which I'm sure is true, but that is not the real
reason
> > > > that it is not used. What keeps people from using it is if it is
> > > > hard to use..until now. I can also tell you that there are
> > > > advancements and improvements to be made, that HAVE BEEN MADE to
> > > > Ehlers' stuff, beyond what is in his books. Our indicators let
> > > > you
> > > > logically make these advancements without being a
mathematician or a
> > > > professional programmer. I did the hard work when I laid
these all
> > > > out and did the C++ programming, now they are easy-to-use and
> > > > extensible.
> > > >
> > > > No doubt, are products are mainly geared towards professional
> > > > traders that can already see how to use our new tools to make
> better
> > > > indicators. And thus the cost of our products is easily
justified
> > > > to them. For the others, it will surely take some time to see
the
> > > > possibilities. Our growing knowledge base is intended to help
> share
> > > > this information that the cutting-edge users develop, and pass
> it on
> > > > down to the less advanced. We encourage you to contact us to
find
> > > > out more about how our products can help you as a trader.
> > > >
> > > > We realize that the only reason that you would buy our
products is
> > > > if you thought they would help make you more money trading. We
> KNOW
> > > > that they can, because we have seen the difference between
them and
> > > > the less effective ones: the 30 year old indicators that come
with
> > > > metastock, and worn out ones that have been written using its
> > > > limited formula language and old indicators.
> > > >
> > > > Our products are very professional, and thus, we charge a
> > > > professional price. We offer top-notch products, support that is
> > > > second-to-none, and more than anything, we encourage a
community of
> > > > learning and improvement that will hopefully justify the cost of
> our
> > > > products.
> > > >
> > > > The only disadvantage we see is our prices, which are pretty much
> > > > set (although we will be offering promotional offers up to 20%
off
> > > > over the next few months).
> > > >
> > > > If you actual take the time to study our product and find any
> > > > disadvantages OTHER THAN PRICE, we will be happy to hear them,
and
> > > > hopefully, will be able to resolve them.
> > > >
> > > > And hey, most new add-ons you hear about are not only expensive,
> but
> > > > they don't do anything. So we can't blame anyone who has
dismissed
> > > > our products as expensive products that take advantage of
suckers.
> > > > We are not looking for suckers. Suckers won't get what our stuff
> > > > does. We are confident that our products actually do something
> > > > dramatic. As we say, We've Given Metastock a BIG Upgrade! So
> please
> > > > take the time to think about the possibilities.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Brad Ulrich
> > > > Developer
> > > > The Dynamic Market Lab, LLC
> > > > www.thedml.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Metastockusers/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Metastockusers-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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