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No, I'm not signing up -- I'm too cheap to pay a subscription for
software, and besides, I think there is enough meat in Roy's
newsletters to last me quite a while. My point was simply that
software subscription models are not unheard off.
I have too many IVs in my arm already: Reuters, TASC, IBD, Value Line,
kids' school fees, netflix, and on and on and on. Don't know why, but
I really dislike the Reuter's IV in particular.
--- In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "superfragalist"
<jackolso@xxxx> wrote:
> Andy,
>
> Reuters is a completely different thing. They have a huge amount of
> data to deal with daily. They have to clean the data, etc every day.
> It takes a lot of hardware, software and people to do that. There are
> sources of "free" data on the internet.
>
> Equis has a lease for those who don't have enough cash to buy, or who
> want to try the product for a month or two before buying. Almost all
> of the long term users convert to owning.
>
> I'm very familiar with software leasing. I didn't like it when I was
> managing companies, and I don't like it now.
>
> If Brad can get his pricing model to work, fine. If it works, it won't
> be because I'm sending him any money.
>
> I assume you're going to sign up! Since you like the Reuters IV you
> might as well get one for each arm.
>
>
>
> --- In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > Andrew, Super,... Just about every software suppier in the engineering
> > space has migrated to the lease model (or time-based model, as they
> > like to call it). Wall street loves deterministic annuity revenue
> models.
> >
> > Even ole Equis has a lease model for Metastock.
> >
> > I contend that your beef is more to do with the fact that a small
> > outfit is trying to exert pricing power over you, and less to do with
> > the actual dollars.
> >
> > What about Reuters' IV in my arm, month-in, month out? What can I do
> > about it? How is that different?
> >
> >
> > --- In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Andrew Tomlinson"
> > <andrew_tomlinson@xxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > So let's assume that these are well coded indicators. I like them so
> > much
> > > that I start to use them . Maybe I build them into a system I want
> > to use.
> > > Then what - I'm locked in to paying these guys a large some of money
> > every
> > > year for ever? Or someone wants to use them as a small part of a
> > system they
> > > want to sell someone else - are they going to have to pay royalties?
> > >
> > > These aren't systems, they're indicators. They are building bricks
> > that, if
> > > they're useful, you may use as part of something larger. What would
> > it be
> > > like is Wilder or Appel or Bollinger or Lane (or their estates)
> > decided that
> > > they wanted to patent their indicators so you would have to pay a
> > licensing
> > > fee for as long as you used them?
> > >
> > > Look, I can only speak for myself. I was excited when I saw the
> post. It
> > > looked like a really useful contribution. But I was staggered when I
> > saw the
> > > pricing scheme. To my mind it looks like a bad precedent for
Metastock
> > > coders and a bad precedent for Technical Analysis. But I'm curious
> now -
> > > what does everyone else think? Is this a good way to go? Should
we pay
> > > on-going licensing fees for every piece of code that people
> > contribute to
> > > this site?
> > >
> > > Yes, people deserve to get paid for good code. But this pricing
> > model sure
> > > doesn't work for me.
> > >
> > > What do you all think?
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > On Behalf Of Kevin
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 3:19 AM
> > > To: Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: Re: [Metastockusers] Re: New Adaptive Tools for Metastock
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Andrew,
> > >
> > > I think that you are being a little harsh here. This guy is simply
> > letting
> > > people know that he has a Metastock product for sale on the
Metastock
> > > forum. It's been done before and, as far as I'm concerned, is
> perfectly
> > > legitimate. After all, nobody has to buy the product or even look at
> > his
> > > site. He made it perfectly clear in his original post that his is a
> > > commercial offering.
> > >
> > > Your argument could be extended to the people at Equis. They have
> > sold most
> > > of us the Metastock package for........money!! Shock! Horror! Have
> they
> > > taken us for fools too?
> > >
> > > If somebody wants to set up shop as a dentist, does he/she expect to
> > pick
> > > up a chair on the cheap, get given a box of drills for free and crib
> > a few
> > > tips about teeth from an internet forum? In any profession, the
> > tools and
> > > expertise have to be bought and, usually, paid for. Experience comes
> > over
> > > time, but that's a different story. Why should the business of
> > trading be
> > > any different?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > > At 09:00 30/06/2005 +0300, you wrote:
> > > >
> > > >My dear friend,
> > > >
> > > >nobody here wants to disprove your work and efforts of making
> valuable
> > > >market tools.The only point I want to stress out,as I've done
in the
> > > >past is that no indicator,no technical study and no pattern will
> make
> > > >you a good trader....
> > > >
> > > >Good traders trade the markets and make money.All the others are
> > > >selling books,services,indicators,seminars,etc....And they will
> always
> > > >find some fools to buy these "products" and earn their living from
> > > >them....period!
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "bradulrich33" <bradulrich@xxxx>
> > > >To: <Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 8:15 AM
> > > >Subject: [Metastockusers] Re: New Adaptive Tools for Metastock
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --- In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Andrew Tomlinson"
> > > > > <andrew_tomlinson@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > >> Not quite a bargain at $600 per annum!!!
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Makes it clear what good value Roy and Jose's work is.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Do Metastock users have a reputation for being rich and dumb,
> that
> > > > > someone
> > > > >> tries something like this?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Andrew
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And how is something Expensive automatically Worthless? If our
> > > > > product was cheap or free, would it be totally awesome???
> > > > >
> > > > > Did you bother to research our products at all, do you have
> > anything
> > > > > intelligent to say about them beyond the obvious? It is easy
> to cut
> > > > > and paste the prices, see:
> > > > >
> > > > > A full list of our prices can be found here:
> > > > > www.thedml.com/pages/order
> > > > >
> > > > > You seem to have formed a staunch opinion quite quickly, and
> yet in
> > > > > so, so, little time. It it seems as though you were
discouraging
> > > > > people from looking at the site and gathering their own
> > information.
> > > > > How else do we learn? It is you who is trying to pull the
sheet
> > > > > over their eyes, not me. I want them all to see. Form their
own
> > > > > opinion.
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Secondly, I think you mispoke: "trying something like this"
> doesn't
> > > > > require being rich or dumb. "Trying" the trial for two
months is
> > > > > free; doesn't cost a thing. And you don't have to be dumb,
> > although
> > > > > you can be...we don't discriminate :)
> > > > >
> > > > > With the trial, you are locked into absolutely nothing, you
> receive
> > > > > nothing that you didn't ask for, and it can fully
uninstalled, no
> > > > > problems...right back to where you started. I have recently
> > updated
> > > > > the trial download page to mention these important things...I
> > > > > realize many people trick you into things with trials...
> > > > >
> > > > > As for Roy and Jose, they ARE worth their weight in gold, and I
> > > > > respect what they do. I can only hope the my company and its
> users
> > > > > can have people as dedicated to education and service as those
> two.
> > > > > If fact, it is our primary policy to offer and encourage
> education
> > > > > to (and between) our users. I really like these guys, I do.
So
> > > > > much, In fact, that I am modelling our company after each of
> > theirs:
> > > > > I am offering quality products for sale, but I am counting
on my
> > > > > support and services to earn a reputation.
> > > > >
> > > > > And I assure you, if Roy and Jose could do what our products do:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1.) They would have already done it
> > > > > 2.) I would not have spent years developing them, and
> > > > > 3.) I would not be selling them, they would be.
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Ah, yes, and then there is the price::
> > > > >
> > > > > Professional tools are offered at premium prices. This is
> obvious
> > > > > in many areas of trading software/services.
> > > > >
> > > > > For example, you can download data for free, or you can get
> premium
> > > > > data for TWICE of what our indicators cost per month. Just for
> > > > > DATA.
> > > > >
> > > > > As for the benefits:
> > > > >
> > > > > You have to understand what it is our products do that you
> > cannot do
> > > > > already in Metastock. With ASI, (the adaptive indicators),
this
> > > > > point is somewhat subtle, and not everyone gets it. If you have
> > been
> > > > > working inside the confined space that is the Metastock
language,
> > > > > then you may not realize that there is another world of more
> > > > > powerful indicators out there waiting to be built. We
> ourselves at
> > > > > the DML do not even see the entire realm of possibilities. The
> > > > > indicators are not just end indicators, they are TOOLS that
> EXTEND
> > > > > THE METASTOCK FORMULA LANGUAGE.
> > > > >
> > > > > As with any new tools, it will take time, and a growing user
> base,
> > > > > to really find out what they are capable of. Some advanced
users
> > > > > know this already, and have been waiting years for a product
that
> > > > > does what ours does. They are very excited, and can't believe
> > > > > someone has finally done it. This is our main target audience.
> > > > >
> > > > > As for Ehlers' work, it speaks for itself. I can tell you as a
> > > > > mathematician and an engineer that the math makes sense and is
> > > > > theoretically sound. What makes so many people not use his
> > stuff is
> > > > > the fact that it is hard to implement. They say it is hard to
> > > > > understand, which I'm sure is true, but that is not the real
> reason
> > > > > that it is not used. What keeps people from using it is if
it is
> > > > > hard to use..until now. I can also tell you that there are
> > > > > advancements and improvements to be made, that HAVE BEEN MADE to
> > > > > Ehlers' stuff, beyond what is in his books. Our indicators let
> > > > > you
> > > > > logically make these advancements without being a
> mathematician or a
> > > > > professional programmer. I did the hard work when I laid
> these all
> > > > > out and did the C++ programming, now they are easy-to-use and
> > > > > extensible.
> > > > >
> > > > > No doubt, are products are mainly geared towards professional
> > > > > traders that can already see how to use our new tools to make
> > better
> > > > > indicators. And thus the cost of our products is easily
> justified
> > > > > to them. For the others, it will surely take some time to see
> the
> > > > > possibilities. Our growing knowledge base is intended to help
> > share
> > > > > this information that the cutting-edge users develop, and pass
> > it on
> > > > > down to the less advanced. We encourage you to contact us to
> find
> > > > > out more about how our products can help you as a trader.
> > > > >
> > > > > We realize that the only reason that you would buy our
> products is
> > > > > if you thought they would help make you more money trading. We
> > KNOW
> > > > > that they can, because we have seen the difference between
> them and
> > > > > the less effective ones: the 30 year old indicators that come
> with
> > > > > metastock, and worn out ones that have been written using its
> > > > > limited formula language and old indicators.
> > > > >
> > > > > Our products are very professional, and thus, we charge a
> > > > > professional price. We offer top-notch products, support
that is
> > > > > second-to-none, and more than anything, we encourage a
> community of
> > > > > learning and improvement that will hopefully justify the cost of
> > our
> > > > > products.
> > > > >
> > > > > The only disadvantage we see is our prices, which are pretty
much
> > > > > set (although we will be offering promotional offers up to 20%
> off
> > > > > over the next few months).
> > > > >
> > > > > If you actual take the time to study our product and find any
> > > > > disadvantages OTHER THAN PRICE, we will be happy to hear them,
> and
> > > > > hopefully, will be able to resolve them.
> > > > >
> > > > > And hey, most new add-ons you hear about are not only expensive,
> > but
> > > > > they don't do anything. So we can't blame anyone who has
> dismissed
> > > > > our products as expensive products that take advantage of
> suckers.
> > > > > We are not looking for suckers. Suckers won't get what our
stuff
> > > > > does. We are confident that our products actually do something
> > > > > dramatic. As we say, We've Given Metastock a BIG Upgrade! So
> > please
> > > > > take the time to think about the possibilities.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Brad Ulrich
> > > > > Developer
> > > > > The Dynamic Market Lab, LLC
> > > > > www.thedml.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Metastockusers/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Metastockusers-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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