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Ok Jack.
No problem then. I just wanted to be sure.
I understand your concerns and I can't argue with what you say.
I think we shall have the opportunity to continue the zigzag conversation
in a few days.
Thank you for your kind comments.
Spyros
PS. Sorry for the delayed response. I was away from home.
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:37:11 -0000
From: "superfragalist" <j3ttt@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Hi Spyros
Of course I wasn't talking about you or the other people who put a
lot time and effort into actually helping people, and just as
importantly, advancing the knowledge of the TA users on this board.
I'm talking about the lurkers who rarely provide anything other than
their wit, or who occasionally help someone but then turn around and
humiliate someone else.
I've gotten emails from people who have quit this board because
someone said something sarcastic to them. That type of comment is
unnecessary, and since the comments can be read by everyone on the
board, even when only three or four people see a post, you feel like
the whole world is looking at you. This is a tuff spot to put newbies
in.
When I can get an email address, I answer a lot of the posts off the
board, especially if I feel the answers aren't going to benefit other
people and the questions come from someone without a lot of
experience.
I've read all of your published work that I've found. Some of it I've
read multiple times. I enjoy reading it because it's well researched,
well written and useful. As I said, I've used it myself to my benefit
and at other times and in other applications, it didn't pan out for
me, which is the case in general for all TA work. When I have the
time, I like to test my own theories, or those of others, by
collecting data and seeing what's there. Sometimes I don't like
something just because it doesn't fit the way I do things, but it
might well work for others.
I think you would agree, that even with the time you've spent with
the zigzag, you still have more to learn. There many situations you
have not encountered yet, or applications you still have to test. I
also doubt that you want the work you've done todate to be
interpretted in black and white.
I've read comments on this board where that has been exactly the
case. You "can't" do this or that, and "don't you know that" type of
comment. From what I've read of your responses to questions, I doubt
you would ever make statements of that type. As you said in your
post, the zigzag is very useful. I've read many statements on this
board and on other boards that make the zz and peak and trough
functions sound like functions from hell, created only to mislead the
uninformed.
The "I'm just trying to help" reference is for those people who use
that tag line right after they've made some self-esteem busting
comment. It's more of a wink and a smile than a sincere comment. I've
had it done to me, so I speak from experience.
The market is tough. Anytime I think I'm getting ahead of the
learning curve, the market teaches me humility. It's the best teacher
I've ever had because there's a direct one to one relationship
between what I do and the grade I get. There's no subjective
influence. Your trades either work or they don't. There are very few
instances of this kind of relationship in life. Most long term
rewards are delayed and filtered through all kinds of influence
before we receive them.
The fact that you would be interested in any comments that were
disrespectful is a sign that you likely have never made any, or at
least none that were done deliberately. I'm not surprised you would
want to learn from previous situations. I would imagine you would
also immediately seek any articles or materials someone mentioned on
the zigzag that you have not read.
As far as the other "real experts" go. I'm not ready to hand them
that badge because they've published articles, written a book or two,
have seminars or whatever. As you well know, this is a business. It
is subject to the same marketing and advertising strategies that all
businesses are subject too, which means a lot of what we see, hear
and get bombarded with is crap. All the wantta be gurus are looking
for new ways to package techical indicators. If they can present the
same warmed over stuff with red and green bars, they've got something
to package and sell.
Even FuturesTruth exists because you can't believe the hype. A number
of people who write the books don't trade, or they only traded for a
little while and quit. They also don't tell people they mostly trade
mutual funds, etc. This to me sounds a lot like business school
professors. Along with my career in business, before I started
trading full time, I taught in several major college MBA programs
around the country.
In my opinion many of the "professors" who taught in those programs
didn't have enough expertise on the subject of business to carry my
briefcase. They had written books on how to do everything in business
but had done none of it. Did I respect them--well it depends. I
respected their ability to write meaningless papers. I respected
their ability to advance themselves in the eccentric world of college
politics. I respected them in many ways, but I wouldn't have hired
them to do anything in any of the companies I managed.
I feel one of the problems with the boards and, email in general, is
the anonymity of it causes a number of people to drop their social
graces and say things in a way they would never say to you in person.
This situation is not good. In addition, without body language
feedback it is often very difficult to interpret what a comment means
specifically. Humor is very difficult to interpret sometimes without
seeing the person who is making the witty remark.
Part of the reason I chose to post my comments in relation to the zz
function was because it's often debated, and in those debates it
tends to attract the boo birds who beat back the supporters. At least
that's been my experience. Therefore, I think a lot of the zz's
usefulness is lost. Many people abandon it before they understand how
to apply it. I certainly don't know much about it myself, except in
the cases where I've used it and it's worked nor not worked for me.
I've applied it in very narrow applications, generally to only one
stock that I knew well.
I wish you continued success with the zz and the discovery process
you've undertaken. I hope some great applications come from the time
and energy you've put in. I do appreciate the fact that you share
your work--not just because it can benefit others, but because you're
willing to put your thinking to the test of reality and public
scrutiny.
Jack
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