|
PureBytes Links
Trading Reference Links
|
<x-html><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Regardless of how the markets go, in my opinion,
you're a winner!</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-----Original Message-----</B><BR><B>From:
</B>Guy Tann <<A
href="mailto:grtann@xxxxxxxxxxx";>grtann@xxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR><B>To: </B><A
href="mailto:metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> <<A
href="mailto:metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR><B>Date:
</B>Friday, July 17, 1998 10:36 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>RE: Learning how to
trade and paying people to divulge their
"know-how"<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=4>I
guess I was one of the lucky ones. I learned at my dad's knee.
Started at 14 years old and spent the first 2 years paper trading before he
would let me try my first 'for real' trade. I've seen him do some of
the dumbest and some of the smartest things I've ever
seen.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=4>On
the dumb side, he took a position in world sugar. I think margin was
$200 or $300 a contract, to put it into perspective. He knew,
fundamentally, that there was too much of the stuff, so he shorted it.
After it ran over $180,000 against him, he rode it all the way back down and
made a few bucks profit. That was dumb. Take your loss and get
out. Don't get so bullheaded that you can fight the
trend.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=4>But the real dumb thing was that he had a buy signal on his technical
system. Oh yes, if he would have reversed (and taken a very small
loss), he could have ridden the move all the way up and reversed when he got
his technical sell signal. He would have made over $250,000 on the
trade had he followed his system.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=4>Then there were the times he took delivery of various 'stuff'.
I remember my mom worrying where she was going to put the 40,000 dz. frozen
eggs he just took delivery of. Or the time he took physical delivery
of 2,000 tons of zinc and the stuff damaged the floor of our warehouse (6
feet of reinforced concrete). But he more than made enough to fix the
floor, and our die casting plant had zinc when there was a world wide
shortage :-).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=4>He's 89 now and still working on technical trading systems. Got
another one from him this week to review and test out. It's sort of
nice having him around. My brother and I still talk to him weekly and
e-mail daily.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]<B>On Behalf Of</B> Essan
Soobratty<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 16, 1998 7:38 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B>Cc:</B>
realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Learning how to trade
and paying people to divulge their
"knowhow"<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>I left school barely before
reaching 18. My first job on a trading desk was fetching coffees
for the other traders and doing their general grunt work. There
was one guy who eventually became my mentor and gave me some valuable
real life lessons treated my like shit for over a year. Nobody sat
me on their knee and read me the abc of trading. Nobody taught me
what a futures contract was. Nobody taught me the difference
between a market and limit order and slippage in a fast market.
Not because they didn't want to - it was the way they learnt and besides
on a bank trading desk, TRADER's DON'T HAVE TIME TO TEACH. (Think
about this statement when a "trader" offers to spend 5 full
days lecturing or teaching privately....). Everything I learnt while on
the steepest bit of that damned learning curve was through watching and
asking questions (at the right time - try asking a trader a question
just after an employment figure.....you're likely to get a half chewed
bit of bigmac spat unintentionally in your direction..... I am speaking
from experience here!).
<P>I lived, eat, breathed and slept markets for 2 years (with only 3
days of vacation & 2 of sick leave) before I was given full
responsibility for a trading book. During my time of working for a
bank I generally arrived at my desk at 6:30am and usually did not leave
until after 7pm (I was in London so I basically arrived at around the
time Tokyo was winding down and stayed until NY was close to going
home). During my 2yrs of "tuition" I had 10-15
traders around me from whom I absorbed as much info as I could; some of
whom had been trading for 10+ years.
<P>I am not knocking a formal education - don't get me wrong. I
wish I had gone to University and stuff. What I am saying is that
learning how to trade effectively is a real life experience which can
only be taught through experience itself. That's why I am
against approaches like paper trading for beginners- it just instills a
false sense of security, emphasises reward and downplays risk and losses
and the negative effect losses can have on the psyche and hence on
future trades. You can paper trade, but only to test new
strategies while trading for real.<I></I>
<P>Think about when you learnt to drive a car. You probably
watched a parent drive for years before seeking instruction. Then
you listened to the instruction and then you got behind the wheel
<I>with the instructor at your side</I>. You only went out on your own
when you were competant enought to drive by yourself (and of course had
your license).
<P>You must be realistic when trying to run up that learning curve.
Don't believe so called guru's if they tell you your performance will be
improved by following his/her methods.
<P>I guess if you are unable to adopt either of the 2 approaches I
outlined in my earlier posting then what I would recommend for a
beginner is to read as much as you can. Not about
"trading" per se but about markets in general. Don't go
out and buy a book on how to predict future turning points in markets or
about fractals Get a good book on laymans economics. Read
Market Wizards. Read interviews with the "big
traders". Read about the fixed income markets. Read
about currencies. Read about derivative pricing. Read the
"classical texts" such as Reminicences (sp?). Read
Niederhoffers book (even though he went bust, his book is full of
wisdom). And if you want to learn how to control losses - read a
good book of gambling. Learn to play poker. Read about
portfolio management. If you want to learn about technical
analysis - get some of the oldest books you can find - forget those on
the bestseller list. The best traders around at the moment have
been trading for many, many years - they didn't have anywhere near the
resources that are available now and yet they are still the best.
Markets do not change - people do as do their perceptions.
<P>Good learning to all.
<P>E. <BR>
<P>Lionel Issen wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE = CITE>There have been relatively very few self
made millionaires with a college <BR>education. Neither
Michael Dell nor Bill Gates have college degrees.
<P>Lionel Issen
<P>-----Original Message----- <BR>From: Richard Estes
<rtestes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <BR>To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <BR>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <BR>Date: Thursday, July 16, 1998
1:22 PM <BR>Subject: Re: Learning how to trade and paying people to
divulge their <BR>"knowhow"
<P>> <BR>>You sound like the type that came out of the womb
trading. There sure <BR>aren't <BR>>many of those around.
<BR>> <BR>>Richard Estes <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>>-----Original Message----- <BR>>From: Essan Soobratty
<trader@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <BR>>To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <BR>>metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <BR>>Date: Thursday, July 16,
1998 12:18 PM <BR>>Subject: Learning how to trade and paying
people to divulge their "knowhow" <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>>>It amazes me how many people once they have
"decided" that they want to <BR>>>trade will then
fork out many $$ in an attempt to learn various
<BR>>>techniques. <BR>>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>></P></BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Sat Jul 18 09:40:37 1998
X-POP3-Rcpt: neal@xxxxxxxxx
Return-Path: <owner-metastock-outgoing@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Received: from mail05.rapidsite.net (mail05.rapidsite.net [207.158.192.42])
by purebytes.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP
id XAA16463 for <neal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:56:06 -0700
Received: from freeze.metastock.com (204.246.137.5)
by mail05.rapidsite.net (RS ver 0.3) with SMTP id 10692
for <neal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 03:46:30 -0400 (EDT)
Received: (from majordom@xxxxxxxxx)
by freeze.metastock.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA05581
for metastock-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 00:30:31 -0600 (MDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: freeze.metastock.com: majordom set sender to owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx using -f
Received: from mx1.freewwweb.com (root@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [207.121.91.90])
by freeze.metastock.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05576
for <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 00:30:27 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from freewwweb.com (ppp-22.tc-1.tpa.smartworld.net [205.181.87.88])
by mx1.freewwweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA03641
for <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 02:32:00 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <35B04D5D.53C4BAE1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 02:23:09 -0500
From: Ken <divenfish@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Learning how to trade and paying people to divulge their "know-how"
References: <001601bdb1fe$c9c23740$1fa3d7cf@xxxxx>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------265A52AE5829431A964D61B1"
Sender: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-Loop-Detect: 1
<x-html><HTML>
THAT'S a great story! Thanks for sharing.
<P>Ken
<BR>
<P>Guy Tann wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=+1>I
guess I was one of the lucky ones. I learned at my dad's knee.
Started at 14 years old and spent the first 2 years paper trading before
he would let me try my first 'for real' trade. I've seen him do some
of the dumbest and some of the smartest things I've ever seen.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=860102703-18071998></SPAN><SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=+1>On
the dumb side, he took a position in world sugar. I think margin
was $200 or $300 a contract, to put it into perspective. He knew,
fundamentally, that there was too much of the stuff, so he shorted it.
After it ran over $180,000 against him, he rode it all the way back down
and made a few bucks profit. That was dumb. Take your loss
and get out. Don't get so bullheaded that you can fight the trend.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=860102703-18071998></SPAN><SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=+1>But
the real dumb thing was that he had a buy signal on his technical system.
Oh yes, if he would have reversed (and taken a very small loss), he could
have ridden the move all the way up and reversed when he got his technical
sell signal. He would have made over $250,000 on the trade had he
followed his system.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=860102703-18071998></SPAN><SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=+1>Then
there were the times he took delivery of various 'stuff'. I remember
my mom worrying where she was going to put the 40,000 dz. frozen eggs he
just took delivery of. Or the time he took physical delivery of 2,000
tons of zinc and the stuff damaged the floor of our warehouse (6 feet of
reinforced concrete). But he more than made enough to fix the floor,
and our die casting plant had zinc when there was a world wide shortage
:-).</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=860102703-18071998></SPAN><SPAN class=860102703-18071998><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=+1>He's
89 now and still working on technical trading systems. Got another
one from him this week to review and test out. It's sort of nice
having him around. My brother and I still talk to him weekly and
e-mail daily.</FONT></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
</HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Sat Jul 18 12:04:12 1998
Received: from freeze.metastock.com (204.246.137.5)
by mail02.rapidsite.net (RS ver 0.3) with SMTP id 1793
for <neal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 04:29:10 -0400 (EDT)
Received: (from majordom@xxxxxxxxx)
by freeze.metastock.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA05797
for metastock-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 01:36:02 -0600 (MDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: freeze.metastock.com: majordom set sender to owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx using -f
Received: from cryptic (cryptic.rch.unimelb.EDU.AU [128.250.232.133])
by freeze.metastock.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05792
for <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 01:35:56 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from rch460.rch.unimelb.edu.au ([203.16.40.58]) by cryptic with SMTP (8.7.1/8.7.1) id RAA19246 for <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:24:37 +1100 (EDT)
Message-Id: <199807180624.RAA19246@xxxxxxx>
X-Sender: kornberg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:28:34 +1000
To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: "Andrew J. Kornberg" <kornberg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Weekly Pick
In-Reply-To: <000701bdb1eb$69a20a60$267d2599@xxxx>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sender: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-Loop-Detect: 1
Hi Jim,
> An unusual week. I started out Monday fully invested and hit an
>all time high in my portfolio. The portfolio slipped back the next
>two days before recovering some on Thursday and Friday. During the
Would you mind putting me on your mailing lists for the Weekly pick and
Your Exploration file (I might be on that one already).
Even though I live and trade the Australian Exchange, I'm sure I can learn
from your charting.
Thanks.
>I got a MetaStock
>Support/Resistance, CMO Buy signal on 7/14/98. I'm looking for a
Where is this Exploration? Is it from one of your own Explorations?
Thanks again,
Andrew
Andrew J. Kornberg
___________________________________________________________________
Phone: +61 3 9532 7714
Fax: +61 3 9822 0955
email: kornberg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
snail mail: Andrew J. Kornberg
9 Newlyn Street
Caulfield, Victoria 3162
Australia
___________________________________________________________________
|