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we can have separate ranking:
absolute
percentage
sharpe ratio
percentage per trade
and different categoris like stokcs, futures, currencies
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, <professor@xxx> wrote:
>
> I'm in. I think that it would be interesting. How would you
determine the winner? Would you use total profit or percentage?
>
> Tom
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: loveyourenemynow
> To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 6:09 AM
> Subject: [amibroker] AMICUP: Anyone actually making money?
>
>
> making money will be always more difficult because professional
> investor are using more and more sophisticated tools which are not
> available to small investors
>
> if anybody can really make 30% would be hired immediately by a fund
> since as far as I know only reinassance techonologies and few others
> was able to keep such a stable performacce
>
> markets dont follow any law, they do what the participant make them
> doing, so any system can fail after being successful for 100 years,
> and the big fishes can easily manipulate markets with their capitals
>
> nobody has a successful system would make it public since it would
> than reduce its profitability, so all you can find in books is
> basically useless
>
> reinassance technologies hires people with no financial background
at all
>
> of course if you mange 100k usd or less you can have some good
> performacce since is a very little capital,
>
> why don't we open a trading competition to check all this
performances?
>
> it would be fun, and could also make amibroker more famous ... may be
> not so good since than, we would loose our competitive advantage
>
> Let's call it AMICUP. Who is in?
>
> regards
> ly
>
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, <professor@> wrote:
> >
> > Fred,
> >
> > You are right. I have written several systems that will produce a
> profit when I backtest them. I have one that showed a profit for 50
> years trading every stock in the DIA. However, it doesn't work when I
> backtest it this year. I don't use optimize, but I do make change to
> get better results. I also agreed that anyone buying a system should
> get proof that it works and is profitable by getting a statement to
> prove that it was traded profitably.
> >
> > Thanks for your comments,
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Fred Tonetti
> > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 9:08 PM
> > Subject: RE: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money?
> >
> >
> >
> > Almost anyone can write a system that can produce 30% CAR in
sample .
> >
> >
> >
> > "Entry tests" are better geared to something like . Show me your
> year end audited brokerage statement for the last 10 years .
> Everything else is some form of fish story which gets better and
> better as time goes by .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > From: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of brian_z111
> > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 8:21 PM
> > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dick,
> >
> > Thankyou very much.
> >
> > You have been around a while and must have seen it all and heard it
> > all several times over.
> >
> > I liked the article.
> >
> > I have been over and around this trade many times, but not using
> > those particular indicators.
> >
> > I still learnt 1 or 2 new things and reinforced some others
> > (sometimes you need a fresh view of an old problem to open your
eyes
> > to it a bit wider).
> >
> > I agree with his core trading philosophies e.g. his idea of
"Reality
> > Based Logic".
> >
> > If I was recruiting some upcoming traders, for a trading team, the
> > entry test would be "show me your 30% EOD equities system" (for any
> > mature economy/market), "now explain to me WHY it works".
> >
> > It there isn't an underlying logic, based on market behaviour, then
> > it is probably a statistical fluke.
> >
> > My concern with computer/AT trading is that it is fine when it is a
> > means to an end but it could become counter productive if it
becomes
> > an end in itself.
> >
> > I haven't rushed to it because I believe I need to keep looking at
> > the charts to stay in touch with market realities (sometimes
trading
> > seems hard but as soon as I look at the charts it is easy again).
> >
> > If I became a computer driven trader I would spend more and more
time
> > looking at formulas, and computed results lists, and less and less
> > time chart reading/market watching.
> >
> > Re the trade example in the article.
> >
> > It is based on some of my core trading elements:
> >
> > - it has a trend (trade with the trend)
> > - it has momentum
> >
> > AND in that situation a big countertrend (pullback), with a trend
> > continuation confirmation, performs better than a small pullback +
> > TCC that doesn't break the trend (it is a type of contrarian
trade -
> > both pullbacks have a similar W/L but the deep pullbacks produce a
> > much higher PayOff ratio) - in fact the deeper the better, as
long as
> > it doesn't break a key pivot point.
> >
> > I found the SFO and the tradingacademy sites by googling....
> >
> > thanks once again.
> >
> > brian_z
> >
> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "areehoi" <areehoi@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Brian.
> > > You have given Louis (and others) some excellent advice. You may
> > find
> > > an article on Trading Systems appearing in the current issue
of SFO
> > > magazine (I'm not sure you receive it in Australia) titled "System
> > > Trading: Whose on the Other Side" of interest. You'll be amazed at
> > > the simplicity of a trading system according to the author. I've
> > > posted it in the files section of the AB Group.
> > >
> > > Dick H
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "brian_z111" <brian_z111@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Louis,
> > > >
> > > > This could be the longest AB thread ever.
> > > >
> > > > Some wonderful people gave you some wonderful answers.
> > > >
> > > > To help you get some lasting value from it, here is my close.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > When you started in AB you asked me "can we really make money
> > trading
> > > > and how much"
> > > >
> > > > I told you >50% but that you should aim for >30% to start with,
> > as a
> > > > benchmark.
> > > > Others said that was not possible.
> > > > Since then I have gone on to say 100% PA is good and 1000%PA is
> > > > possible.
> > > >
> > > > Now you are asking the same question again!
> > > >
> > > > (others have now confirmed they ARE doing over 50% but no one
> > else is
> > > > talking about 1000% yet).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You asked me where you should start and which approach was
better.
> > > > I told you that you should learn in US EOD stocks because it
has
> > all
> > > > of the basic elements of trading right there etc
> > > > I said that RT data was a lot harder to handle and not worth
the
> > > > trouble to newcomers.
> > > >
> > > > You went to RT and had trouble.
> > > >
> > > > I told you that almost no one trades using 1000's of symbols in
> > RT
> > > > (most long term traders narrow down to the indexes, a filtered
> > > > watchlist of stocks, a small semi-permanent list of stocks,
Forex
> > or
> > > > Commodities.
> > > >
> > > > You tried to use 100's or 1000's of RT stocks for your first
> > system.
> > > > You had trouble with that.
> > > >
> > > > I told you it would take years.
> > > > Now after only 7 months you are struggling with it.
> > > >
> > > > In this thread I have laid it all out for you (roughly)
although
> > I am
> > > > only saying what others have said in different ways, but to
close
> > out
> > > > I will briefly summarise/explain what I have said.
> > > >
> > > > Method:
> > > >
> > > > a) isolate the key skills required to trade
> > > > b) practice them repetitively until they become second nature
> > > > c) positively reinforce your trading alter ego by focus,
> > simplicity,
> > > > positive thinking, repetition etc
> > > >
> > > > a) is the reason that so few succeed.
> > > > b) and c) are a piece of cake.
> > > >
> > > > It takes so long to isolate the key skills of trading
because the
> > > > subject is so vast and there are so many conflicting
opinions AND
> > > > very few, if any, traders who make it will lay it all out for
> > anyone.
> > > >
> > > > All in all it is like going through a library full of books and
> > > > distilling the info down to a single Readers Digest.
> > > >
> > > > The super traders distill it all down to a tablespoon of gold.
> > > >
> > > > This takes a lot of time and many don't have what it takes
to see
> > the
> > > > wood for the trees.
> > > >
> > > > After years I have got it down to the last pile of books
(you can
> > > > easily successfully trade at that level, in fact you can trade
> > > > reasonably well if you only make it half way through).
> > > > I only managed that because I was lucky enough to be an
intuitive
> > and
> > > > this helped me find the shortcuts (I didn't have to read all of
> > the
> > > > books).
> > > >
> > > > So once again, here is my practical advice to you.
> > > >
> > > > Don't take on the whole library - it is overwhelming.
> > > >
> > > > Take on one section.
> > > >
> > > > Start with US EOD trading, no leverage.
> > > > After you learn to get >30% there you can then start to learn
> > > > leveraging stocks (via options OR Single Stock Futures).
> > > > After you learn that then you can quickly and easily learn
> > > > Commodities/Futures etc or whatever you want - the trading
world
> > is
> > > > your oyster.
> > > >
> > > > All of the core elements of trading are right there in EOD
stocks.
> > > > If you can't find them there then you are not going to make it
> > > > anywhere.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Re AutoTrading.
> > > >
> > > > This is like having your car on auto-pilot.
> > > > First you have to have a car.
> > > > Then you have to learn to drive it.
> > > > Then you can say "now I will automate it and put my feet up
while
> > it
> > > > drives down the road".
> > > > You don't just decide to learn autodriving before you fulfil
the
> > > > first two steps.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Why not start with commodities?
> > > >
> > > > because you will be trying to learn trading and leveraging both
> > at
> > > > the same time plus all of the elements of trading are not
exposed
> > the
> > > > way they are in stocks (you have the complication of
seasonality
> > plus
> > > > you are limited to 20-30 instruments).
> > > > In stocks you get a much better feel for trading with the
> > different
> > > > cap levels, different volatilities, sectors and global
> > relationships
> > > > etc - things you don't see so clearly in other instruments.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Why not start in RT?
> > > >
> > > > because so much of your time will be taken up with
> > software/hardware
> > > > issues when you should be focusing on learning to trade (plenty
> > of
> > > > time for RT once you can trade).
> > > > Also - once you can trade then trading RT bars is barely any
> > > > different - you can go straight on with it (tick trading is
> > something
> > > > else again - only suitable for people who are right at home
with
> > IT
> > > > skills)
> > > >
> > > > Wheh should I learn Money Management?
> > > >
> > > > First you have to get a system that can do >=30% when paper
> > trading
> > > > i.e. it does that live, for a reasonable period (on data you
have
> > > > never seen before).
> > > >
> > > > IF YOU CANT DO THAT FIRST YOU CAN FORGET THE REST AND GIVE UP.
> > > >
> > > > Then, if you get that far, you need to learn the basisc of MM
> > before
> > > > you start to trade with real money (you can improve your MM
based
> > on
> > > > your trading experience but you must now the basics before you
> > start.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Realistically, only those with above average aptitude are going
> > to be
> > > > able to do that while they are holding down a job (the
magnitude
> > of
> > > > the task is pretty big unless you have a mentor, a friend or
you
> > have
> > > > the right stuff to skip through it).
> > > >
> > > > All the best with your endeavours,
> > > >
> > > > brian_z
> > > >
> > > > please excuse me if I don't answer any further questions on the
> > > > subject.
> > > >
> > > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Louis P." <rockprog80@>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I was only wondering... Anyone actually making money or
making
> > a
> > > > living
> > > > > with AB and trading?
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been working on ideas and plans for over 7 months now
and
> > > > didn't find
> > > > > anything convincing yet. I've been searching daily data, then
> > > > hourly,
> > > > > 15-minute and now I am into 1-minute data and nothing seems
> > > > satisfying.
> > > > > Been searching RSI, MFI, ADX, MA, HHV, LLV... nothing
seems to
> > work.
> > > > >
> > > > > So... Anyone is making consistent money with this, and if so,
> > at
> > > > which
> > > > > timeframe and how do you do it?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm beginning to think about switching to tick database; it
> > seems
> > > > even
> > > > > 1-minute is too slow for intraday trading. Anyone making
money
> > with
> > > > > 1-minute?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Louis
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
> > It has removed 521 spam emails to date.
> > Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
> > Try SPAMfighter for free now!
> >
>
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