Sent:
Friday, August 01, 2008 10:31 AM
Subject:
[amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money?
>>What ever happened to day traders and short term
traders trading the
OEX options or futures contract? This was the
premire indices to
trade. It seems you could make a small fortune day
trading this alone.<<
QQQQ options are replacing OEX options
as the option instrument of
choice for day trading.
OEX option
volume peaked in the 1980's, today it is less than 15% of
its peak
value and declining. Open interest is less than 1/5 of its
peak
value.
QQQQ option volume and open interest are much larger than
that of OEX
options and rising.
Advantages of QQQQ options over
OEX options:
Narrower spreads, near the money QQQQ options rarely
have a Bid/Ask
spread > 0.01 -> better fills and larger
profits.
More liquid -> faster fills and less market
manipulation.
Larger % moves -> use closer to the money strikes
to get comparable
leverage.
>>Why are traders interested
in finding a stock that might make a
significant move when indices
maybe a less volatile way to trade?<<
Greater volatility
means greater profit potential.
If you swing trade, there are more
potential trading opportunities
with stocks than with indices because
there are many more of them.
Bill
--- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Ernie Newman"
<trading4@xxx> wrote:
>
> What ever happened to day
traders and short term traders trading the
> OEX options or futures
contract? This was the premire indices to
> trade. It seems you
could make a small fortune day trading this alone.
> Why are traders
interested in finding a stock that might make a
> significant move
when indices maybe a less volatile way to trade?
> Just my
opinion.
> Ernie
>
> --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Paul Ho" <paul.tsho@>
wrote:
> >
> > Louis
> > A surgeon trained for
more than a decade before his first
> operation.
> > An
Engineer requires at least one decade of training including
> >
university and practical training on the job before he can sign his
> > name on a buiding permit. Everything takes time to master,
trading
> > is no different. Universities and colleges divides
their teachings
> > into different courses at different degree
of difficulties because
> > they know too much knowledge, too
much disorganised knowledge is
> > bewildering and confusing to
the learner. This is also true for
> you.
> >
you'll have to organise the way you learn. Learn one area,
> >
one timeframe, one technique, one style and one setup until you
>
> master it before you move on to the next. It dosesn't seem you are
> > struck with that technique for the rest of your life. It
just mean
> > you'll have to learn how to walk before you
run.
> > There are many styles, and techniques, setups out there.
Decide on
> > one and stick with it until you understand it,
know it, proficient
> at
> > applying it before you move
on. Amibroker forum is a smorgesboard
> of
> >
discussions and ideas, but it can become a distraction if you are
>
not
> > disciplined enough, jumping from one idea to the next,
without
> giving
> > sufficient time to let it "get" to
you.
> > You will no doubt make your own mind up. You will make a
decision
> on
> > what you do based on your personality,
trading styles, and perhaps
> > you circumstances. Some time
later, you may revisit your decisions
> > again, but
fundamentally your future will be pretty much guided by
> > the
decisions you make today. If you understand that, then you will
>
> also understand that you, and you alone are the cause of your own
> > fortune. There are plenty of people who fail and succeed in
each
> > style. Whether that is Support and Resistance, or
intrdays system
> > based auto-trading, and how much
concentration, dedication and
> > tenanicity you are going to
give to honour your decision, it is all
> > up to you.
>
> --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Louis P."
<rockprog80@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you
all for your responses. What can I say, except that
> >
there is lot
> > > of stuff to think about here!
> >
>
> > > From what I have read, the most important part to
actually make
> > money from
> > > all this is Money
Management. That's where I am so weak; I tried
> > to
deal
> > > with low-liquidity stocks precisely because I
wanted to get a
> > leverage, but
> > > I don't see
how I can do this on high liquidity stock without
> > having to
use
> > > all my money power (to get on the margin).
>
> >
> > > There is a big part on charts, indicators,
etc. in the manual,
> but
> > maybe it
> > >
would be nice to have more explanation about all to use money
>
> management
> > > tools. Or maybe I missed the
explanations.
> > >
> > > What's my goal?
30-40% a year is what I'd like to achieve. I
> was
>
> able to
> > > build a system using low-liquidity stocks
to build that, but that
> > was before
> > > I
realized that real-time trading has a limit of 500 "live"
> >
tickers. I
> > > tried to find a way around that
problem, but well, it didn't work.
> > >
> > > To
Brian: yes I have read the messages about this. I read about
> > 75% of
> > > everything that is written on this
board. But it didn't help me
> > enough...
> >
> yet. I might have to rethink how I do things. I was
(and still
> > am) just
> > > curious to see how
other people were dealing with this; is it
> > possible
to
> > > make a lot of money with this, and if yes, how ("how"
is not
> asking
> > for a
> > > particular
code, but more general ideas). Right now I am
> working
> > on high
> > > liquidity stock, but I feel like
this might also be a wrong idea.
> > >
> > > To
you people who make a lot of money using automated trading
> code
> > generated
> > > with AB, on what kind of markets
do you do it? Stocks?
> Futures?
> >
Big caps,
> > > small caps?
> > >
> >
> I've read people who say a big problem is sticking to the
system.
> > > Personnally I think this will be the easiest
part for me; when
> the
> > system
> > > will
be ready I will follow it blindly. The problem to me is how
>
> to get
> > > there. 7 months might seem like not a
lot of time, but I worked
> > numerous
> > > hours
on this in that timeframe and had brilliant ideas that just
> >
wouldn't
> > > do the trick. That's why I am confused
right now and I was
> actually
> > > wondering if it
was possible to make money out of this.
> > >
> >
> Thanks a for your interesting responses!
> > >
>
> > Louis
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2008/7/31 sidhartha70 <sidhartha70@>
> >
>
> > > > Ohh Paul... I agree about knowing
yourself as I said in my
> > answer to
> > > >
Brian. But that's a given surely...?? You only learn that from
>
> years
> > > > of trading and observing yourself... you
can of course become
> > informed
> > > > on the
subject of yourself... there's plenty of literature on
> >
it...
> > > > Mark Douglas obviously.
> > >
>
> > > > But I stand by what I said... you can become a
great trader by
> > really
> > > > understanding
trendlines, support & resistance in it's many
> forms
>
> and
> > > > studying price & volume
action...
> > > >
> > > > I know it...
because I've seen it... and I've done it.
> > > >
>
> > > You have your techniques Paul... and good luck to you.
Great if
> > they
> > > > work for you. For me,
this is what has worked for me...
> > > >
> > >
> Henrik thanks for your response. Good to see others agree.
>
> > >
> > > > Paul, might I suggest you get out
more and make some more human
> > > > connections... you'd
probably find you'd be happier, less
> angry,
> >
less
> > > > arrogant, less superior and might even enjoy
some of this money
> > you
> > > > make
trading...
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <amibroker%
> >
40yahoogroups.com>,
"Paul Ho"
> > > > <paul.tsho@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > > I'm still waiting for your to
say something sensible, that's
> of
> > value,
>
> > > > > rather than just dig everyone out...???
>
> > > >
> > > > > LOL, I just told you. YOu
cant become a good trader until you
> > know
> > >
> > yourself, really know yourself. Knowing how to draw a few
> lines
> > makes
> > > > > you a TA
guy, not a trader. understanding the market makes
> you a
>
> > > > market analyst. Even know how to develop a system
doesnt make
> > you a
> > > > > trader either,
you are merely a system developer. When you
> > master
>
> > > > yourself, you are on your way to become a real
trader.
> > > > > Just because you've been involved in
trading for years,
> seeing
> > others
> > >
> > making millions, no more makes your a trader than me an
>
> olympian just
> > > > > because I've been watching
olypmics for the last 45 years.
> > > > > You might
think I'm slagging you off, but in years to come,
> you
>
> will
> > > > > find out for yourself whats
true.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <amibroker%
>
40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > >
"sidhartha70" <sidhartha70@>
> > > > >
wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
Paul,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I
programme too... nothing wrong with programming and
> making
> > your
> > > > > life
> > > >
> > easier. And nothing wrong with asking for someone to 'throw
> > you a
> > > > > > bone' in that goal...
I'm new to AFL. So what??
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > I've been involved in trading for many years... market
> > making, index
> > > > > > arbitrage,
statistical arbitrage, long/short prop etc..
> many
> >
years.
> > > > > > And some of the best money makers
I've ever seen have been
> > traders,
> > > >
> > not system traders, who genuinely have a great read of the
> > market
> > > > > > based off tape
reading skills... they have achieved returns,
> > > > >
> consistently, that systems traders can only dream of...
> >
> > > >
> > > > > > I've traded both...
systems and otherwise... you can
> > programme all
> >
> > > the
> > > > > > most complicated
indictaors you like... they are all based
> on
> >
the
> > > > > same
> > > > > >
things tape reading is... which is price & volume action...
>
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'm still
waiting for your to say something sensible,
> that's
> >
of
> > > > > value,
> > > > > >
rather than just dig everyone out...???
> > > > >
>
> > > > > > --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <amibroker%
> >
40yahoogroups.com>,
"Paul
> > > > Ho" <paul.tsho@> wrote:
> >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > learn
everything you can
> > > > > > > about trendlines,
support & resistance and the old tape
> > reading
>
> > > > skills
> > > > > > > and you
will be miles ahead of 'system developers' in
> terms
> >
of
> > > > > > > actually understanding the
markets and becoming a better
> > trader.
> > > >
> > > .......
> > > > > > > So you think
understanding a few lines on the chart you
> will
> > >
> > become
> > > > > > a better
> >
> > > > > trader!!!
> > > > > > >
So you think understanding the market will make you a
>
better
> > > > > trader!!!
> > > > >
> > So you think you are miles ahead just because you know
>
how
> > to
> > > > > draw a
> > >
> > > lines
> > > > > > > rather than a
system trader who write a few hundred lines
> of
> > >
> > codes.
> > > > > > > NONE OF THE ABOVE
WILL MAKE YOU A GOOD TRADER
> > > > > > > YOU WILL
ONLY BECOME A GOOD TRADER IF YOU KNOW YOUSELF.
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > I'LL KEEP THIS IN A SAFE
PLACE AND USE IT AS A REPLY WHEN
> > YOU ASK
> > >
> > > SOMEONE TO
> > > > > > > THROW YOU
A BONE.
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > ________________________________
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > From:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <amibroker%
> >
40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >
[mailto:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <amibroker%
>
40yahoogroups.com>]
> > > > > >
> On Behalf Of sidhartha70
> > > > > > > Sent:
Thursday, 31 July 2008 10:47 PM
> > > > > > > To:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <amibroker%
>
40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > >
> Subject: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money?
> >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
Louis,
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > Here's my tip... worth it's weight in gold. I've been
>
doing
> > > > > this for
> > > > >
> > a
> > > > > > > long time...
>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Stop
looking for the holy grail system... learn everything
> > >
> > you can
> > > > > > > about trendlines,
support & resistance and the old tape
> > > > >
reading
> > > > > > > skills
> > >
> > > > and you will be miles ahead of 'system developers' in
> terms
> > of
> > > > > > >
actually understanding the markets and becoming a better
> > >
> > trader.
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > Too many people spend far too much time trying to
develop
> > > > > a 'system'
> > > > >
> > rather than becoming a better trader.
> > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <amibroker%
> >
40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > >
> <
mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com
<amibroker%
> >
2540yahoogroups.com>>
> > > > ,
"Louis P." <rockprog80@>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> Hi,
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I was only wondering... Anyone actually making money
or
> > > > > making a
> > > > > >
> living
> > > > > > > > with AB and
trading?
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I've been working on ideas and plans for over 7 months
> now
> > > > > and
> > > > >
> > didn't find
> > > > > > > > anything
convincing yet. I've been searching daily data,
> > > >
> then
> > > > > > > hourly,
> > >
> > > > > 15-minute and now I am into 1-minute data and
nothing
> > seems
> > > > > > >
satisfying.
> > > > > > > > Been searching RSI,
MFI, ADX, MA, HHV, LLV... nothing
> > seems
> > >
> > to
> > > > > > > work.
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > So...
Anyone is making consistent money with this, and
> if
> >
> > > so, at
> > > > > > > which
>
> > > > > > > timeframe and how do you do it?
>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> I'm beginning to think about switching to tick
> database;
> > it
> > > > > seems
> > > >
> > > even
> > > > > > > > 1-minute is
too slow for intraday trading. Anyone making
> > > > >
money
> > > > > > > with
> > > >
> > > > 1-minute?
> > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > >
Louis
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
>
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > >
>
>
>