Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:31
AM
Subject: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually
making money?
>>What ever happened to day traders and short term
traders trading the
OEX options or futures contract? This was the premire
indices to
trade. It seems you could make a small fortune day trading this
alone.<<
QQQQ options are replacing OEX options as the option
instrument of
choice for day trading.
OEX option volume peaked in
the 1980's, today it is less than 15% of
its peak value and declining. Open
interest is less than 1/5 of its
peak value.
QQQQ option volume and
open interest are much larger than that of OEX
options and
rising.
Advantages of QQQQ options over OEX options:
Narrower
spreads, near the money QQQQ options rarely have a Bid/Ask
spread > 0.01
-> better fills and larger profits.
More liquid -> faster fills
and less market manipulation.
Larger % moves -> use closer to the
money strikes to get comparable
leverage.
>>Why are traders
interested in finding a stock that might make a
significant move when
indices maybe a less volatile way to trade?<<
Greater volatility
means greater profit potential.
If you swing trade, there are more
potential trading opportunities
with stocks than with indices because there
are many more of them.
Bill
--- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Ernie
Newman" <trading4@xxx> wrote:
>
> What ever happened to day
traders and short term traders trading the
> OEX options or futures
contract? This was the premire indices to
> trade. It seems you could
make a small fortune day trading this alone.
> Why are traders
interested in finding a stock that might make a
> significant move when
indices maybe a less volatile way to trade?
> Just my opinion.
>
Ernie
>
> --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Paul
Ho" <paul.tsho@> wrote:
> >
> > Louis
> > A
surgeon trained for more than a decade before his first
> operation.
> > An Engineer requires at least one decade of training including
> > university and practical training on the job before he can sign
his
> > name on a buiding permit. Everything takes time to master,
trading
> > is no different. Universities and colleges divides their
teachings
> > into different courses at different degree of
difficulties because
> > they know too much knowledge, too much
disorganised knowledge is
> > bewildering and confusing to the
learner. This is also true for
> you.
> > you'll have
to organise the way you learn. Learn one area,
> > one timeframe,
one technique, one style and one setup until you
> > master it
before you move on to the next. It dosesn't seem you are
> > struck
with that technique for the rest of your life. It just mean
> >
you'll have to learn how to walk before you run.
> > There are many
styles, and techniques, setups out there. Decide on
> > one and
stick with it until you understand it, know it, proficient
> at
> > applying it before you move on. Amibroker forum is a
smorgesboard
> of
> > discussions and ideas, but it can
become a distraction if you are
> not
> > disciplined enough,
jumping from one idea to the next, without
> giving
> >
sufficient time to let it "get" to you.
> > You will no doubt make
your own mind up. You will make a decision
> on
> > what you
do based on your personality, trading styles, and perhaps
> > you
circumstances. Some time later, you may revisit your decisions
> >
again, but fundamentally your future will be pretty much guided by
>
> the decisions you make today. If you understand that, then you will
> > also understand that you, and you alone are the cause of your
own
> > fortune. There are plenty of people who fail and succeed in
each
> > style. Whether that is Support and Resistance, or intrdays
system
> > based auto-trading, and how much concentration,
dedication and
> > tenanicity you are going to give to honour your
decision, it is all
> > up to you.
> > --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Louis
P." <rockprog80@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you
all for your responses. What can I say, except that
> > there
is lot
> > > of stuff to think about here!
> > >
> > > From what I have read, the most important part to actually
make
> > money from
> > > all this is Money
Management. That's where I am so weak; I tried
> > to
deal
> > > with low-liquidity stocks precisely because I wanted to
get a
> > leverage, but
> > > I don't see how I can do
this on high liquidity stock without
> > having to use
> >
> all my money power (to get on the margin).
> > >
>
> > There is a big part on charts, indicators, etc. in the manual,
> but
> > maybe it
> > > would be nice to have
more explanation about all to use money
> > management
> >
> tools. Or maybe I missed the explanations.
> > >
> > > What's my goal? 30-40% a year is what I'd like to
achieve. I
> was
> > able to
> > > build a
system using low-liquidity stocks to build that, but that
> > was
before
> > > I realized that real-time trading has a limit of 500
"live"
> > tickers. I
> > > tried to find a way
around that problem, but well, it didn't work.
> > >
> >
> To Brian: yes I have read the messages about this. I read about
> > 75% of
> > > everything that is written on this
board. But it didn't help me
> > enough...
> > >
yet. I might have to rethink how I do things. I was (and
still
> > am) just
> > > curious to see how other people
were dealing with this; is it
> > possible to
> > > make
a lot of money with this, and if yes, how ("how" is not
> asking
> > for a
> > > particular code, but more general
ideas). Right now I am
> working
> > on
high
> > > liquidity stock, but I feel like this might also be a
wrong idea.
> > >
> > > To you people who make a lot
of money using automated trading
> code
> > generated
>
> > with AB, on what kind of markets do you do it? Stocks?
> Futures?
> > Big caps,
> > > small
caps?
> > >
> > > I've read people who say a big
problem is sticking to the system.
> > > Personnally I think this
will be the easiest part for me; when
> the
> >
system
> > > will be ready I will follow it blindly. The
problem to me is how
> > to get
> > > there. 7
months might seem like not a lot of time, but I worked
> >
numerous
> > > hours on this in that timeframe and had brilliant
ideas that just
> > wouldn't
> > > do the trick.
That's why I am confused right now and I was
> actually
> >
> wondering if it was possible to make money out of this.
> > >
> > > Thanks a for your interesting responses!
> > >
> > > Louis
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > 2008/7/31 sidhartha70 <sidhartha70@>
>
> >
> > > > Ohh Paul... I agree about
knowing yourself as I said in my
> > answer to
> > >
> Brian. But that's a given surely...?? You only learn that from
>
> years
> > > > of trading and observing yourself... you can
of course become
> > informed
> > > > on the subject
of yourself... there's plenty of literature on
> > it...
>
> > > Mark Douglas obviously.
> > > >
> >
> > But I stand by what I said... you can become a great trader by
> > really
> > > > understanding trendlines, support
& resistance in it's many
> forms
> > and
> >
> > studying price & volume action...
> > > >
>
> > > I know it... because I've seen it... and I've done it.
>
> > >
> > > > You have your techniques Paul... and
good luck to you. Great if
> > they
> > > > work for
you. For me, this is what has worked for me...
> > > >
>
> > > Henrik thanks for your response. Good to see others
agree.
> > > >
> > > > Paul, might I suggest you
get out more and make some more human
> > > > connections...
you'd probably find you'd be happier, less
> angry,
> >
less
> > > > arrogant, less superior and might even enjoy some
of this money
> > you
> > > > make trading...
>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<amibroker%
> >
40yahoogroups.com>, "Paul Ho"
> > >
> <paul.tsho@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > >
> > I'm still waiting for your to say something sensible, that's
> of
> > value,
> > > > > > rather than
just dig everyone out...???
> > > > >
> > > >
> LOL, I just told you. YOu cant become a good trader until you
>
> know
> > > > > yourself, really know yourself. Knowing
how to draw a few
> lines
> > makes
> > > >
> you a TA guy, not a trader. understanding the market makes
> you
a
> > > > > market analyst. Even know how to develop a
system doesnt make
> > you a
> > > > > trader
either, you are merely a system developer. When you
> >
master
> > > > > yourself, you are on your way to become a
real trader.
> > > > > Just because you've been involved in
trading for years,
> seeing
> > others
> > > >
> making millions, no more makes your a trader than me an
> >
olympian just
> > > > > because I've been watching olypmics
for the last 45 years.
> > > > > You might think I'm
slagging you off, but in years to come,
> you
> >
will
> > > > > find out for yourself whats true.
>
> > > >
> > > > > --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<amibroker%
>
40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > >
"sidhartha70" <sidhartha70@>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > >
> > > > > > Paul,
> >
> > > >
> > > > > > I programme too...
nothing wrong with programming and
> making
> > your
>
> > > > life
> > > > > > easier. And nothing
wrong with asking for someone to 'throw
> > you a
> > >
> > > bone' in that goal... I'm new to AFL. So what??
> >
> > > >
> > > > > > I've been involved in
trading for many years... market
> > making, index
> > >
> > > arbitrage, statistical arbitrage, long/short prop etc..
> many
> > years.
> > > > > > And some
of the best money makers I've ever seen have been
> >
traders,
> > > > > > not system traders, who genuinely
have a great read of the
> > market
> > > > > >
based off tape reading skills... they have achieved returns,
> > >
> > > consistently, that systems traders can only dream of...
>
> > > > >
> > > > > > I've traded both...
systems and otherwise... you can
> > programme all
> > >
> > the
> > > > > > most complicated indictaors you
like... they are all based
> on
> > the
> > >
> > same
> > > > > > things tape reading is...
which is price & volume action...
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > I'm still waiting for your to say something sensible,
> that's
> > of
> > > > > value,
>
> > > > > rather than just dig everyone out...???
> >
> > > >
> > > > > > --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<amibroker%
> >
40yahoogroups.com>, "Paul
> > >
> Ho" <paul.tsho@> wrote:
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > learn everything you can
>
> > > > > > about trendlines, support & resistance and
the old tape
> > reading
> > > > > skills
>
> > > > > > and you will be miles ahead of 'system
developers' in
> terms
> > of
> > > > >
> > actually understanding the markets and becoming a better
>
> trader.
> > > > > > > .......
> > >
> > > > So you think understanding a few lines on the chart you
> will
> > > > > become
> > > > >
> a better
> > > > > > > trader!!!
> >
> > > > > So you think understanding the market will make you a
> better
> > > > > trader!!!
> > > >
> > > So you think you are miles ahead just because you know
>
how
> > to
> > > > > draw a
> > > >
> > lines
> > > > > > > rather than a system
trader who write a few hundred lines
> of
> > > > >
codes.
> > > > > > > NONE OF THE ABOVE WILL MAKE YOU A
GOOD TRADER
> > > > > > > YOU WILL ONLY BECOME A GOOD
TRADER IF YOU KNOW YOUSELF.
> > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > I'LL KEEP THIS IN A SAFE PLACE AND USE IT AS A REPLY
WHEN
> > YOU ASK
> > > > > > SOMEONE TO
>
> > > > > > THROW YOU A BONE.
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > > >
________________________________
> > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > From:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<amibroker%
> >
40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >
[mailto:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <amibroker%
>
40yahoogroups.com>]
> > > > > > > On Behalf Of
sidhartha70
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, 31 July 2008
10:47 PM
> > > > > > > To:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<amibroker%
>
40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > >
> Subject: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > Louis,
> >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Here's my
tip... worth it's weight in gold. I've been
> doing
> > >
> > this for
> > > > > > > a
> > >
> > > > long time...
> > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > Stop looking for the holy grail system... learn
everything
> > > > > you can
> > > > >
> > about trendlines, support & resistance and the old tape
>
> > > > reading
> > > > > > >
skills
> > > > > > > and you will be miles ahead of
'system developers' in
> terms
> > of
> > > >
> > > actually understanding the markets and becoming a
better
> > > > > trader.
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > Too many people spend far too much
time trying to develop
> > > > > a 'system'
> >
> > > > > rather than becoming a better trader.
> >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<amibroker%
> >
40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >
> > <
mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com
<amibroker%
> >
2540yahoogroups.com>>
> > > >
, "Louis P." <rockprog80@>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
Hi,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > I was only wondering... Anyone actually making money or
>
> > > > making a
> > > > > > >
living
> > > > > > > > with AB and trading?
>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
I've been working on ideas and plans for over 7 months
> now
>
> > > > and
> > > > > > > didn't
find
> > > > > > > > anything convincing yet. I've
been searching daily data,
> > > > > then
> > >
> > > > hourly,
> > > > > > > >
15-minute and now I am into 1-minute data and nothing
> >
seems
> > > > > > > satisfying.
> > > >
> > > > Been searching RSI, MFI, ADX, MA, HHV, LLV... nothing
> > seems
> > > > > to
> > > > >
> > work.
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > So... Anyone is making consistent money with this,
and
> if
> > > > > so, at
> > > > >
> > which
> > > > > > > > timeframe and how
do you do it?
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > I'm beginning to think about switching to tick
> database;
> > it
> > > > > seems
>
> > > > > > even
> > > > > > > >
1-minute is too slow for intraday trading. Anyone making
> > >
> > money
> > > > > > > with
> > >
> > > > > 1-minute?
> > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > Louis
>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
>
>
>
>