Hello,
Yes I have read beyond that point, and I have read about
plugins for "drawing tools". Generally I would agree. But not without
doubts.
Unfortunatelly, while non-GUI stuff (like AFL, data plugins,
optimization plugins) can easily be interfaced via few functions,
the GUI stuff is usually more tricky to "standarise". But
generally having plugins for everything is nice idea.
On the other hand, despite the fact that AFL plugin interface
exists from 2001 (7 years now), a very few 3rd party plugins
were
written, even considering the fact that they are easiest to
write. so I am not so sure if 3rd party "drawing tools" would be developed
at all.
Best regards, Tomasz Janeczko amibroker.com
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:41
AM
Subject: RE: [amibroker] Re: Study
Charting dare I say bugs...
Tomasz,
You are pretty good to pounce on semantics. But i
didnt say AB was a one man band
I said Tomasz, you are a one man band. And I'm pretty
convinced that I'm right by the way you replied to this post. Anyway, did
you read what I say beyond that? Plugins are implemented in AB but only in
AFL. I said other parts of AB will benefit greatly in that approach, in
particular the hand drawing capabililties. Just to use the muic analogy a bit
more because I play a bit myself. I think part of AB industralisation is more
than composing music, it is conducting an orchastra to play the piece that you
compose (AB) well.
Hello,
For correctness sake: AB is NOT one man band. There is
Marcin doing 99% of support tasks. Plus I do outsource bookkeeping and
some other "side" tasks.
What is one-man is AmiBroker core
development. And it will stay that way for various reasons, with main
reason being that adding 2 more developers for core development would
SLOW DOWN the development and the quality would go down hill, no matter
how good these developers are. These are facts of life. I was working in
various developer teams in the past starting from 3 people ending at 40
developers and adding developers only adds problems. The only way to
work in a team in efficient way is to have *separate* programs to develop
(they can communicate between each other). Sligthly less efficient (but
still OK) is to have plugin approach with well defined interface. The
plugin approach is already implemented in AB.
Programming is NOT
equivalent to homebuilding. Programming is rather like composing music.
At least for me. Did you see lots of music written by more than one
composer? (even if many people appear on the "credits", usually the core
idea is the work of one man).
Best regards, Tomasz
Janeczko amibroker.com ----- Original Message ----- From:
"brian_z111" <brian_z111@xxxxxxcom> To:
<amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com> Sent:
Saturday, June 21, 2008 10:56 AM Subject: [amibroker] Re: Study Charting
dare I say bugs...
> Paul, > > Thanks for your
thoughtful comments. > >> I also assumed that many of those
who wanted/relied >> on AB's drawing capabilities might also have
deserted us already. > > Dennis, Joseph, Murthyuresh and Bill
are still here. > They strike me as being people with a good knowledge
of AB and also > not the types to make frivilous complaints. >
>> Believe me, the law >> of diminishing return applies
far more rigourously in human than >> CPUs. > >
> I have to agree that this is a factor but born business people
thrive > on that challenge. > > Small business
challenges are the same all around the developed world. > >
Example: > > Friends of my wife - husband and wife 6 figure+ PA
turnover every > year - earthmoving and construction. >
> He was on mobile and got calls all day, every day and night of the
> week. > He was a one man 'operating' band - she 'did the
books' and was the > hidden business brains. > > I told
him "if you are available 24/7 they will call you 24/7, if you > are
available 9 to 5 they will call you 9 to 5 and you will still do >
exactly the same amount of business". > > Also - the decision
to change from a 'one man band' operation to > a 'business model' is
very hard for anyone and excruciating for some. > > I told him
"you have to learn to trust people and delegate and then > you can
get some fishing time". > > Today his mobile is private and
only for family use. > He has a business (sort of) manager and an
office (sort of) manager. > > I told him "Now you have to give
your 'manager' his own project to > run from start to finish and give
him a % of the profit. > If he is successful then give him the next
project as well and take > your first holiday in 10 years" (his wife
always listens quietly). > > Then I said "It doesn't matter
what you do the staff will never do it > exactly as you will do it
yourself and they will never be quite as > good at it as you
are". > > He turned to me and said "Yes, but they are good
enough". > > His business has doubled in the last 3
years. > > His wife is a very good student. > >
brian_z > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com,
"Paul Ho" <paultsho@xx.> wrote: >> >> Being a
patron of AB for more than 4 years. I would say that AB is >> very
much an AFL centric product. The changes in the AFL engine and >>
its capabilities has been nothing short of phenomenal. In contrast,
>> the hand drawing features of AB has hardly changed in the last
4 >> years, and probably not much has changed for much longer than
that. >> Although not publicly stated, I presumed that it is the
direction >> that Tomasz wants to go, and this specialization has
been very >> successful. I can also assumed that many of those who
wanted/relied >> on AB's drawing capabilities might also have
deserted us already. I >> have known some of the problems Dennis
has mentioned long time ago, >> but somehow I have never bothered
even to mentioned them, probably >> because I developed myself
more on AFL as a trading and charting >> tool, and hardly use the
drawing tools these day. >> >> Tomasz is a one man band.
So I can apprecriate and am very happy > with >> the
product direction he has taken. I dont think Brian's suggestion >>
of hiring a few more programmers is the answer. Believe me, the law
>> of diminishing return applies far more rigourously in human
than >> CPUs. What I would like to see is that Tomasz opens up the
hand >> drawing capability to third party contribution throuh the
use of >> plugins, much like the AFL and data plugins. Once done,
I'm sure > that >> people will roll their own drawing
tools. Of course, existing bugs >> will still need to be
fixed. >> >> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com,
"brian_z111" <brian_z111@> wrote: >> > >>
> > And no, I can not hire 2 more programmers because then I would
>> need >> > >to rise the cost of the program 3
times >> > > and then everyone would scream that it is too
expensive and > will >> > >walk away. Then it would
mean the end of product. >> > >> > Since Dennis's
intent is to invite constructive comment and since >> the
>> > forum does act as an informal customer feedback
center: >> > >> > the content of your reply relates
to a lot of personal and > business >> > decisions - not
sure if you are inviting comment on those matters? >> >
>> > >> > >> > As a
customer: >> > >> > I am not certain that I am a
price buyer (once again this relates >> to >> >
business theory and application), probably not. >> >
>> > The price is nice but is it the reason I buy
AB? >> > >> > In the first place I made a choice to
make trading my home based >> > business (I could have chosen
something else), so that makes me a >> > business customer I
guess (albeit a small-time one). >> > >> > You
can't trade professionally with anything less than approx >
$100K. >> > If I invested that amount with an Aussie fund I
would pay around > 2% >> > expenses, so 2K PA is a
reasonable operating cost. >> > >> > When I first
started my costs were high (books, training courses >> etc)
>> > but now I can operate around those figures (I do my own
tax and >> only >> > need
software/data/computer/internet - but I would have >>
> computer/internet anyway - I don't need specialist computers for
>> > trading). >> > >> > Of course
that is only if we don't consider brokerage as a > business
>> > cost - if I daytrade 100k what is my annual brokerage
bill? - >> > mentally I lump this in with gross edge -
commissions == net edge >> but >> > in business terms
it is on the books as operating costs. >> > Software/data costs
are a tiny fraction of annual commissions. >> > >>
> Anyone who has operated a business, in one of the major economies
>> of >> > the world, will know that trading costs
are laughable compared to >> the >> > costs of
running other businesses - most businesses in Australia >> run
>> > on very low net returns compared to the capital invested
in the >> > business. >> > >> >
>> > Also when I bought AB I was not a naive
trader. >> > I knew what I was doing and had owned two other
software packages >> > prior to AB. >> >
>> > On that basis I would say I am a specialist customer
(perhaps > that >> is >> > AB's niche in the
market). >> > >> > Specialists want the software to
do the things they want it to do >> > (pretty hard since we all
want different things). >> > >> > Adding all of
that up I vote for: >> > >> > please hire another
programmer, give people more of what they > want >> >
(give the optimizers their dual core stuff, give the chartists >>
their >> > snap and draw or whatever, give the Aussies their
YahooFdata etc, >> > etc) and put the price up - maybe even add
some features >> > to the UKB :-) >> > >>
> Metastock is the point of comparison for AB - it is approx $500
> PA >> > for EOD and from $1000 for Pro - so AB can
stand that price (of >> > course they have 'lease' MS for a
monthly fee which allows us to >> > pretend we are not paying
$1000 a year and so that makes it feel >> > nicer). >>
> >> > >> > >> > Re price
buying: >> > >> > If I buy a cheap car I get less
features. >> > If I pay more I get more features and better
appointments. >> > If I buy the cheap car I still expect the
(lesser) features to > work. >> > If they don't I won't
buy it again at any price. >> > >> > (if an
existing feature doesn't work this has a far more negative >> >
effect on customers than not having the feature they want in the
>> > first place? - psychologists claim that one negative
experience > far >> > outweigns many positive
experiences - also it is human nature to >> buy >> >
the cheaper model and then complain because it doesn't have the >>
> features they didn't pay for - that will never change). >>
> >> > >> > Re: walking away >> >
>> > When it comes time for you to buy a new car what do you do
Tomasz? >> > >> > Are you going to stick to a
brand, out of loyalty, if a competing >> > model has better
reliability, features and appointments at the > same >>
> price? >> > >> > How about availability,
delivery and service? >> > >> > What motivates you
to buy a product and then rebuy it over and > over? >> >
>> > Also you will find your needs change with time - as the
kids grow >> the >> > house and the cars get bigger
and after they go you and your wife >> can >> > have
an office each (they used to be the kids rooms). >> >
>> > So, perhaps people will walk away if their needs change
and/or AB >> is >> > no loner meeting their
needs. >> > >> > - better ask your wife, about the
car, before you buy though - > it >> > always pays to
get a second opinion ;-) >> > >> > >>
> >> > Re: what do customers want? >> >
>> > We want it all - don't you? >> > >>
> That will never change either. >> > >> > The
more that companies meet those 'impossible' needs the more >> >
customers they get. >> > >> > For example - who
goes to Starbucks to pick up a coffee, then > goes >> to
>> > Wendys to pick up a donut and takes them to the burger
shop to > put >> > them together for a nice breakfast if
they can get a nice burger, >> > coffee and donut at Maccas
(plus a free paper to read as well)? >> > >> > -
better get a second opinion from the kids on that one too ;-) >>
> >> > >> > >> > Hope my
perspective offered some helpful feedback. >> > >>
> Regards, >> > >> > brian_z >> >
>> > >> > >> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com,
"Tomasz Janeczko" <groups@> >> > wrote: >> >
> >> > > Hello, >> > > >> >
> You people don't seem to realise that I am THE ONLY PERSON who
>> > works on AmiBroker code. >> > > The day has
only 24 hours and one person has only two hands. >> > > Now
if even few people ouf of 8000 users submit "ideas" > everyday,
>> > no matter what I do I can not implement >> >
> them IMMEDIATELLY. >> > > >> > > And no,
I can not hire 2 more programmers because then I would >> need
>> > to rise the cost of the program 3 times >> >
> and then everyone would scream that it is too expensive and >
will >> > walk away. Then it would mean the end of
product. >> > > >> > > So, considering that I
am the ONLY DEVELOPER of AmiBroker and >> wrote >> >
everything from scratch with my own hands, I can say that: >> >
> a) I am doing more than anyone in this business to make >
customers >> > happy >> > > b) I am implementing
MORE features/user requests/ideas than >> anyone >> >
else in this business >> > > c) I am going an extra mile with
responding PERSONALLY on the >> > public mailing list to many
of your posts. >> > > >> > > I can not do
MORE than I am doing now. It is physically >> impossible
>> > for anyone. >> > > >> > >
So, if I tell you that I am going to check things, I will do >>
that, >> > but this is all subject to TIME and PHYSICAL ABILITY
constraints. >> > > >> > > Pushing the string
does not help at all. It makes things worse. >> > >
>> > > Best regards, >> > > Tomasz
Janeczko >> > > amibroker.com >> > > -----
Original Message ----- >> > > From: wavemechanic
>> > > To: AmiBroker, User >> > > Sent:
Friday, June 20, 2008 2:47 PM >> > > Subject: Re: [amibroker]
Study Charting dare I say bugs... >> > > >> >
> >> > > Dennis: >> > > >> >
> I completely agree with your overall assessment and know that
>> at >> > least several users also completely or
partially agree but may or >> may >> > not respond -
so you are not alone. Much has been said through > the >>
> years on the Yahoo board/AB website/support mail about >>
> bugs, "clunkiness", and desired/necessary features. Because of
> the >> > type of problems that you mentioned (I am
also indicator mode >> > oriented), I use the EOD version of AB
and then only at "half >> > throttle" because my applications
and programming needs are not > as >> > extensive as
that of a number of other AB users. Like you, I use >> > broker
supplied and personal software for RT streaming and > charting
>> > studies (no "shoe" fits all). These issues, however, are
not >> > restricted to AB as evidenced by a recent review on
another board >> > where the user compared
AB/Metastock/Tradestation/Blocks and > ended >>
up >> > (as I understand) with a Blocks package that includes
>> > charting/streaming data/EOD data/backtesting/useful
standard >> > features - so things are evolving. >>
> > >> > > Bill >> > > ----- Original
Message ----- >> > > From: Dennis Brown >> >
> To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com
>> > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:12 AM >> >
> Subject: [amibroker] Study Charting dare I say bugs... >> >
> >> > > >> > > Friends, >> >
> >> > > AmiBroker is a wonderful program for many
things. In fact > I >> > use only >> > >
a fraction of its total capability for my trading style. I >> >
trade only >> > > single ticker (futures) real time and
write whole trading >> > systems just >> > > in
AFL in indicator mode. This is actually more like the >> >
traditional >> > > chart trading that is offered by many
brokers. >> > > >> > > I would expect that
AB, which supports all these functions > as >> a
>> > very >> > > basic operating mode would be
at least as good as other >> > charting >> > >
programs. >> > > >> > > However, even though
the fundamental operations are there >> (and >> > I
think >> > > potentially better), the interface (either
design or >> > implementation >> > > bugs --I
don't know which) has made it hard for me to use >> this
>> > product >> > > for drawing even basic
lines on the charts while trading. > In >> > fact, I
>> > > need a second chart from my broker's application open
to > the >> > same >> > > ticker just so
I can draw lines where I want them even > though >> > AB
would >> > > be superior at this if it were not for the
bugs. This has >> been >> > going >> >
> on with me for over a year now and it is costing me. >> >
> >> > > I have other trading friends that I have
recommended try AB >> in >> > the >> >
> last week, and I am embarrassed to think what they will say
>> to >> > me when >> > > they figure
out that these basic features don't work >> properly. >>
> I have >> > > actually refrained from recommending AB
to them for quite a >> > while -- >> > > hoping
these things would be fixed first. >> > > >> >
> I don't know how many other traders are frustrated by the >>
same >> > bugs, >> > > but if you are, please
join the conversation so that Tomasz >> > knows that
>> > > this is important to you also and perhaps we can get
some >> > higher >> > > priority on getting the
study charting to work properly. >> > > >> >
> Here is a short list of my frustrating bugs --there are >>
others >> > on the >> > > suggestions and bug
lists, but I am only pointing out the >> ones >> >
that >> > > cost profits by either making it very slow to do
a simple >> > operation >> > > that makes one
lose the trade opportunity, or creates >> > frustration and
>> > > emotion which takes one out of the trading "Zone", or
makes >> the >> > line >> > > drawn
correctly to become inaccurate causing one to miss > the >>
> trigger >> > > point for a trade. If I have missed any
that you feel are >> > costing you >> > >
profits (not the nice to have pretty things) than please > add
>> > them to >> > > the
conversation. >> > > >> > > #726. Handles
from a selected study line are not > respected. >> >
Often >> > > several lines are anchored or pass through the
same pivot >> > points. >> > > Price levels,
Trend lines, Forks, Fibs, etc., often use a >> > common pivot
>> > > point. However, as a trade progresses, new pivots
become >> more >> > > important and the lines need
to be adjusted in real time. > It >> > is easy
>> > > to select a study just by clicking on it in a spot
where it >> is >> > unique, >> > >
and the handles will appear along the line. However, > unlike
>> > any other >> > > charting program I have
ever used, clicking and dragging on >> > the >> >
> visible handle will not usually work properly if any other >>
> study >> > > crosses very close to that handle. The
problem is that AB >> will >> > grab >>
> > the earliest drawn study and not the selected one --it will
>> un- >> > select >> > > the one you
selected and select the oldest one and drag it >> > instead.
>> > > After playing around for a few valuable seconds
trying to >> grab >> > the >> > >
right line, I end up having to move the whole line away > from
>> > its >> > > current location and reposition
all its handles. Very >> > frustrating and >> >
> takes the time and concentration away from the trading >
action. >> > > >> > > #728. Horizontal price
levels do not stay horizontal. The >> > horizontal >>
> > lines (price levels) do not snap to a bar with the magnet
>> mode >> > on. >> > > They just are
placed at the cursor level. However, if you >> > click on
>> > > the line, it jumps to an angled line that snaps to
the bar > on >> > the left >> > > side
of the screen. Its operation is just bizarre and > causes
>> > errors >> > > in placement of the price
level after the fact. > Completely >> > >
unacceptable behavior for trading. >> > > >> >
> #890. Study handles change when off screen. Lets say you >>
have >> > the >> > > magnet on and are zoomed
out and draw a trend line between >> two >> > peaks.
>> > > Next you zoom in on the trading action so that only
the > right >> > hand >> > > handle is
visible on the chart. Now say the prices have >> > advanced to
a >> > > new peak and you need to adjust the right handle to
the new >> > peak (this >> > > is a very common
occurrence). Most of the time, that > handle >> > that
is >> > > off screen jumps to a new bar position and is no
longer on >> the >> > peak >> > > you
selected. Of course that changes the slope of the > trend
>> > line to >> > > the wrong one, but you
never know it when trading and you > end >> > up
>> > > placing bad breakout trades because the line is in
the > wrong >> > place >> > > now.
Completely unacceptable behavior for trading. >> > >
>> > > #990. Drag shadow is on the wrong bar. When dragging
a >> study, >> > there >> > > is a
thin "shadow" line that shows which bar you have > dragged
>> > the >> > > handles to. However, when the
mouse is released, the study >> > gets moved >> >
> to a different bar than the one indicated by the shadow. >>
This >> > wastes >> > > valuable time with two
or three attempts to figure out > which >> > wrong bar
>> > > to put the shadow on to get the study to go where you
want >> it. >> > This >> > > is an
annoyance. >> > > >> > > And here is one more
that I just found today. If I draw >> trend >> >
lines >> > > on a one minute bar snapped to peaks, then
switch to a 5 >> minute >> > view, >> >
> the trend lines are shown on the wrong 5 minute bars. And >>
> heaven help >> > > me if I select the line in that
view, because it will snap > to >> > these >>
> > wrong bars. >> > > >> > > There you
have my short list. Please speak up if these >> issues
>> > affect >> > > you. >> > >
>> > > Best regards, >> > >
Dennis >> > > >> > > >> > >
>> > >
------------------------------------ >> > >
>> > > Please note that this group is for discussion between
users >> > only. >> > > >> > >
To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail > directly
>> to >> > > SUPPORT {at}
amibroker.com >> > > >> > > For NEW RELEASE
ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check >> >
DEVLOG: >> > > http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/ >>
> > >> > > For other support material please check
also: >> > > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html >>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > >> > >
>> > >
---------------------------------------------------------- >
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>> > > >> > > >> > > No
virus found in this incoming message. >> > > Checked by AVG.
>> > > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1510 -
Release >> Date: >> > 6/19/2008 3:21 PM >>
> > >> > >> > > > >
------------------------------------ > > Please
note that this group is for discussion between users only. > >
To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to >
SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com > > For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS
and other news always check DEVLOG: > http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/ >
> For other support material please check also: > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html >
Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
__._,_.___
Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG:
http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/
For other support material please check also:
http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
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