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Regarding the one tick above/below and it's usefulness in futures
systems .vs. stocks etc ... Yes I'm aware the applicability. As far
as stops and how to apply them goes, yes I would agree there are lots
of good ways to apply them without advertising them unless of course
one has a system that is so short term oriented that it can only be
managed programmatically which btw doesn't describe how I trade or
how I design systems. Beyond that I think it should be known, which
it of course would be by those who do trade, that a stop is a
guarantee of nothing other than the order being entered. In a
downdraft environment a la late 1987 or worse yet limit down in
futures which can occur day after day one will not be getting out
anywhere near where a mechanical stop in a system being backtested
says one would be.
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Al Venosa <advenosa@xxxx> wrote:
> OK, that's what I thought you meant. One way to avoid "stop
running" by
> crooked market makers is to compare the CLOSING price to the stop
level,
> and if it is exceeded, then exit next morning on the open (or
within 15
> minutes of the open) on either a market or limit order. That way,
you
> wouldn't be playing the game as if your cards were exposed and the
> market maker's was not. BTW, the idea of setting your stop 1 tick
above
> or below a high/low or resistance/support level works better with
> futures since a tick is different for each commodity (so you don't
have
> to worry about a tick being different for a $100 security vs. a
$500
> security).
>
> Fred wrote:
>
> >
> > No ... I'm not saying I don't like profit stops per se ... I'm
saying
> > I've never liked POINT oriented anything except possibly for some
> > types of entires and exits where they are oriented to 1 tick
> > over/under high/low ... People who develop these sorts of things
are
> > usually focused on very small time frames as a point on the NDX
for
> > example means something very different when the NDX is at 1000 or
> > 5000. Additionally whether or not ANY type of stop or profit
taking
> > makes for a better system imho needs to be part of backtesting.
In
> > some systems these techniques are a plus and in some they
aren't. As
> > far as stops in general go ... what works in the sterile
environment
> > of backtesting doesn't always work when actually placed in the
market
> > as this is roughly equivalent to playing some card game with yours
> > face up.
> >
> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Al Venosa <advenosa@xxxx> wrote:
> > > Fred:
> > >
> > > I think what you are saying is that setting monetary stops
(i.e.,
> > stops
> > > based on hitting a price target based on a percentage or point
> > move) is
> > > for the birds but setting stops based on some TA pattern
(support
> > or
> > > resistance levels) makes more logical sense, right? I'm talking
> > more
> > > about stopLOSSES rather than PROFIT stops.
> > >
> > > Al Venosa
> > >
> > > Fred wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > One would I think ?! need to demonstrate whether using some
> > > > methodology to take profits off the table or not was better or
> > worse
> > > > than its counter part in some system. For any given system
it is
> > > > imho not clear at all which route is better without seeing the
> > > > trades, which there are hopefully enough of to perform a valid
> > > > examination, and then determining which method is superior and
> > why.
> > > > As far as n-point profit targets or stops goes imho they're
for
> > the
> > > > birds ... this type of thing either works with percentages
where
> > the
> > > > same meaning is implied if the tradable is at 50, 500 or 5000
or
> > they
> > > > aren't worth bothering with.
> > > >
> > > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "yukitaga" <yukitaga@xxxx>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Someone who shall remain nameless tossed out this gem for
> > serious
> > > > > consideration (watch the line wrap):
> > > > >
> > > > > > Is exiting a portion of your trade before your profit
target
> > is
> > > > > > hit a viable strategy?
> > > > >
> > > > > (watch the line wrap)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
http://www.traders.com/Documentation/FEEDbk_docs/Abstracts_new/Passam
> > > > > onte/Passamonte.html
> > > > >
> > > > > The guy who wrote this is a real kick. ^^_^^ First, he
begins
> > his
> > > > > article with an invocation to the sanctity of mathematics,
> > which I
> > > > > don't really have a problem with. But then he proceeds to
set
> > up a
> > > > > straw man using statistics, which Mark Twain had a
commentary on
> > > > > something to the superlative of 'damned lies'.
> > > > >
> > > > > (If you have never read "Letters From The Earth" [Mark
Twain],
> > you
> > > > > are missing one of the great satirical writings in the
English
> > > > > language. I don't literally ROTFLOL very often, but I did
many
> > > > > times when reading that book.)
> > > > >
> > > > > The whole *point* of taking something off the table before
some
> > > > > profit target is hit seems to be beyond this self-
> > > > > proclaimed "professional trader" who (I paraphrase) doesn't
> > bother
> > > > > with a "few points" on the S&P, but who holds out for 5 to
10
> > > > points
> > > > > or more on every trade.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm impressed . . . ^^_^^ No, really! ^^_^^ I love
taking the
> > > > > other side of the trade against people who know where the
> > market is
> > > > > headed before it arrives there, and who aren't going to take
> > > > > any "nonsenese" from the market if it happens to disagree.
> > > > >
> > > > > But this God's gift to trading doesn't even seem to
understand
> > that
> > > > > one RAISES THE STOP when one takes a partial profit on a
> > position.
> > > > > The whole point, the only point, and the point that counts
is:
> > > > > DEFENSE. That is why one takes partial profits. One does
not
> > do
> > > > it
> > > > > attempting to maximize profits, but to protect capital.
> > > > > Maximization of profit is wonderful. Hey, I'm all for it.
But
> > > > only
> > > > > AFTER the defense is set up. Before that, the whole idea is
> > > > > balderdash and hooey gooey poppycock. Perhaps someone else
has
> > > > > better and more modern adjectives. My English is dated.
In any
> > > > > case, defense first, and anyone who doesn't play that way is
> > dead
> > > > > meat in this business.
> > > > >
> > > > > But the silly little argument with charts in that article
has
> > > > > someone taking a profit, then leaving the stop below
breakeven.
> > > > >
> > > > > Duh! Gee, I wonder why the math works out like that? *_*
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry, but I just couldn't let that little bit of 3-card
Monty
> > go
> > > > > without a challenge.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yuki
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Check AmiBroker web page at:
> > > > http://www.amibroker.com/
> > > >
> > > > Check group FAQ at:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/files/groupfaq.html
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Check AmiBroker web page at:
> > http://www.amibroker.com/
> >
> > Check group FAQ at:
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